Collecting online payments away from CRSauron's eye

[Solomilla]

Hi! First of all, thank you for this forum, I'm learning so much on here 🙂

I'm looking for some advice:

Our actual situation is”¦
- I'm the owner of a sport club in Spain.
- This company develop 2 activities: tours (unique payments with or without invoice) and gym (online recurrring payments)
- We actually use Stripe as payment gateway. The money goes into our club bank account.
- Everything is transparent to the spanish IRS, we pay all the taxes we must pay.

This system (the simplest one) is drown us in taxes. We want to change our company estructure to avoid paying some taxes. Our initial setup is”¦
- Create a second payment gateway (hidden, we will provide the link manually) connected with an offshore bank account so our clients could pay with their cards (only when they don't ask for an invoice, in that case they should pay via Stripe). The 50% of our recurring billing would be redirect here too, so we need a platform that accepts recurring payments. Which would you recommend? 2checkout? Paypal? Stripe? Another?
- In order to open the offshore bank account, we need an offshore company, address, documents”¦ and nominee director to hide my identity. It's not a problem for me to leave my country and adquire the residence in another country.
- We prefer to open a bank account to deposit the money an not only use an EMI because we want to use this offshore company on real estate investments.
- I don't mind to pay some taxes in the offshore country.

Problems I found”¦
- The offshore company has no activity but has incomes, money on the bank account arriving from card payments for a service offered in Spain.
- I would be the UBO, so my identity is not so protected.
- Tax authorities reporting
- 2checkout / Paypal / Stripe limits and reporting to tax authorities

My questions”¦
- How could we justify our incomes without company activity, invoices”¦?
- How can I protect my identity?
- Could we redirect the money into differents EMI (Leupay, Payoneer, Revolut, Paysera”¦) so the first year we split the total amount (for example 40.000€) into 4 accounts with 10.000€ each? And later, when we solve all the offshore question, we send the money to our new offshore bank account.
- How about non resident companies? How does it work? I create a non resident company in Cyprus so I don't pay taxes there but they will report my incomes to my country taxes authority. I guess the key is finding a country with minimum taxes and become resident. In that case I wouldn't need a director nominee, or would I??? I agree about paying some taxes if it help me with an easier scheme.
- Why do I need to use an VPS? Assuming that VPS is virtual private server. Can't I operate with a shared hosting?
- Do I need to connect via VPN to open the Paypal / Stripe / 2checkout / whatever account?? In which cases geolocalization must be considered? All that VPS / VPN stuff is really necessary or it's only an anonymous add-on?
- What about using darks? It could be an easy solution?

For the moment, the most important question for me is find out if 2checkout reports our received payments, or if Leupay / Revolut / Payoneer / EMI”¦ reports the incomes to the spanish tax autorities. I think that small amounts will not be reported, but I really don't know. And if it is reported anyway, then I think I must use darks... Or open an account in a non-CRS country, Georgia for example. What do you think?

Thank you!

NEXT MONTH SETUP (we will start with a temporary setup)

FUTURE SETUP

 

[Martin Everson]

You explained this very well.

Your first suggestion of moving country is ultimately the best solution. Moving to a territorial tax country would solve all your problems. Portugal next door has a territorial tax system so you may want to explore it further - that way you are not required to pay any tax on offshore income that is not remitted (check the details carefully as it does not cover certain types of income). The problem with using an offshore banks is they will all report sooner or later and most have started already. EMI will follow also for sure. Also the ultimate beneficial owner is always reported to the home country in the end - a nominee does not offer any protection any longer.

A good option to reduce tax is to make use of Spain's double taxation agreements. You can setup an Estonia company that pays no tax if profits are not distributed and make sales via that company. Then when you want to eventually withdraw those funds move to a country that is tax free or as territorial tax system and withdraw the funds.

Toggle signature
Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[negon]

I would recommend you to look into something like Cyprus with nominees that will protect your real identy at first. It's much easier to get a payment gateway for a Cyprus / EU country compared to any offshore corp.

That said, you could setup a company say in the UK with darks and open a UK company youself also in the UK and ask your payment service provider to credit the money to this account even though it is not in "your name" (merchant account holders name) some payment processors have problems with it as long as it is in the same country.

 

[blizz]

I would setup a anonymous offshore corp with darks for payment processing only! works with most merchant account providers and payment gateways. Then transfer the money from these entities directly into another company. As Auric already said, it is possible to ask the MAP to send the money to a different account if it's just in the same country.

I have done this even with PayPal, works great.

Toggle signature
Be part of the elite, be Mentor Group Gold coo-:!y

 

[Solomilla]

In order to create a 2checkout account (or Stripe, or Paypal...), the owner (person or corp) must be resident in the same country as the bank account???? I've read that it must be, and this could be a point to consider.

auric said:
I would recommend you to look into something like Cyprus with nominees that will protect your real identy at first. It's much easier to get a payment gateway for a Cyprus / EU country compared to any offshore corp.
Click to expand...

Offshore corp in Cyprus + bank account in Cyprus? If I need a bank, I have to go in person.

auric said:
That said, you could setup a company say in the UK with darks and open a UK company youself also in the UK and ask your payment service provider to credit the money to this account even though it is not in "your name" (merchant account holders name) some payment processors have problems with it as long as it is in the same country.
Click to expand...

I didn't understand that, if I setup a company in UK with darks, I also create an account in Stripe with same darks, or what? And then, where I send the money? An EMI like Revolut also setup with same darks? This is a labyrinth. If I need a IBAN account in the same country as the corp, I see it very limitated. And as you said, "some payment processor have problems with it as long...". Some problems with what? Be in the same country or not? I get lost at this point.

blizz said:
I would setup a anonymous offshore corp with darks for payment processing only! works with most merchant account providers and payment gateways. Then transfer the money from these entities directly into another company. As Auric already said, it is possible to ask the MAP to send the money to a different account if it's just in the same country.

I have done this even with PayPal, works great.
Click to expand...

Is this better in my case (starting now with small amounts and in one year "upgrade" the setup) use a business account in instead of a personal one? If a use a corp, I must report my anual balance to the taxes authorities, and then what? I really don't know how it works in that case, how many "obligations" I could jump on the darks side. Reading you it seems to be very easy, but I don't think so.

I could open a Paypal account with my offshore company (setup with darks) and where do I send the money? To another company? With my real name? And then I will be reported. And my home country will ask about the money...

I don't know if I'm more confused before or after I post my question ns2

 

[Solomilla]

Martin Everson said:
You can setup an Estonia company that pays no tax if profits are not distributed and make sales via that company. Then when you want to eventually withdraw those funds move to a country that is tax free or as territorial tax system and withdraw the funds.
Click to expand...

Make sales? I invent the invoices to justify the incomes? My clients doesn't ask for invoices so... About moving to another country tax free to withdraw, I didn't understand that point.

 

[Martin Everson]

I would do things above board in a tax efficient way. Unless you are willing to move to a country where tax is no longer an issue you need to think about consequences down the line.

Toggle signature
Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[JohnLocke]

Solomilla said:
Offshore corp in Cyprus + bank account in Cyprus? If I need a bank, I have to go in person.
Click to expand...

No, everything can be setup remote, you don't need to visit Cyprus nor do you need to visit the bank!

Toggle signature

>> Unlock the Power of OffshoreCorpTalk: Become a Member of the Mentor Group Gold <<​

Latest Video Interviews, Offshore Company Resources, Payment Processing Tips & Tricks, Articles and Anonymity Hints only a click away!
Support the Freedom of Speech of our Community

Disclaimer: Nothing I say should be taken as tax, legal or financial advice. Anything I say is for general informational purposes only. Always seek independent professional advice.​

 

[Solomilla]

How about this:

1. Cyprus corp + Cyprus bank account, with Auric docs. With provided docs I can create 2checkout account and receive the payments into de Cyprus bank account. Money will "accumulate" there. I couldn't use this company for my investments and real estate purposes.

2. I open a corp (don't know where), maybe UK or Estonia. I transfer the money from Cyprus to the new corp with invoices justifying this transfer (consulting, whatever) and then I use the money for my final purposes. I could use the corp number 2 to pay my expenses, because everything is OK and it's in my name. I can change my residency to look for the best tax setup.

3. Corp 2 and Cyprus corp are not connected because my name doesn't appear in the Cyprus one, so I can charge services between them.

Am I forgeting something???

 

[JohnLocke]

1. You can simply transfer the money to another account and withdraw it there or get a debit card for the Cyprus bank account and spend it this way.
2. That could work actually
3. Yes, that's also how I know many others are doing it.

You could setup a UK company with a Cyprus bank account and use real darks.

Toggle signature

>> Unlock the Power of OffshoreCorpTalk: Become a Member of the Mentor Group Gold <<​

Latest Video Interviews, Offshore Company Resources, Payment Processing Tips & Tricks, Articles and Anonymity Hints only a click away!
Support the Freedom of Speech of our Community

Disclaimer: Nothing I say should be taken as tax, legal or financial advice. Anything I say is for general informational purposes only. Always seek independent professional advice.​

 

[Solomilla]

There could be another scenario: open a 2checkout / Stripe account with Auric darks (personal, not corporate). 2co doesn't allow to add a bank account from a different country than the account holder, but Stripe does.

Opening a Stripe account + Revolut account

- Do you know if it is possible to open a Leupay account with darks since they use video ID verification?

By one hand, I prefer the Cyprus corporation + Cyprus bank setup, but by the other hand using personal docs from Auric is cheaper.

- What would be the difference for you between both setups? What would you recommend and why? Your opinion are much appreciated!!! I'm learning so much in this forum.
1. Cyprus corp + Cyprus bank (real darks) + bank card + 2co account
2. Stripe account + EMI (Revolut?) with darks (not corporate)


-------
For your interest, here it is the list of countries I can choose to setup a bank account in Stripe (with a spanish Stripe account):

- Austria
- Belgium
- Denmark
- Estonia
- Finland
- France
- Germany
- Gibraltar
- Ireland
- Italy
- Luxembourg
- Netherlands
- Norway
- Portugal
- Spain
- Sweden
- Switzerland
- UK

 

[negon]

Solomilla said:
1. Cyprus corp + Cyprus bank (real darks) + bank card + 2co account
Click to expand...

The most secure setup because you have an entity (corporate account) so they won't wonder if higher amounts are floating through the system.

Solomilla said:
2. Stripe account + EMI (Revolut?) with darks (not corporate)
Click to expand...

Can work too, it's a personal account and for that reasons there may be limits by Revolut, check their limits before you go that route.
Also note, you will need real darks from deep web and not fake darks, I can do both at the moment.

 

[blizz]

only way to avoid CRS is setup something with darks. If you don't be prepared that the tax man will come after you! If you don't do large amounts forget about anonymity and pay your taxes it's much better,

Toggle signature
Be part of the elite, be Mentor Group Gold coo-:!y

 

[Solomilla]

blizz said:
only way to avoid CRS is setup something with darks. If you don't be prepared that the tax man will come after you! If you don't do large amounts forget about anonymity and pay your taxes it's much better,
Click to expand...

I won't move large amounts (not millions) but I prefer anonymity and, divide into smaller amounts to keep a low profile. Is legit money hidden to the IRS, so...

 

[Vince]

guys just a question, is using Cyprus instead of something more traditional like Belize, just because of 2CO access or are there any other advantages?

Thanks

 

[JohnLocke]

It's much easier to open an account at 2co for a Cyprus business compared to a Belize company. The owner of the Belize corp need to be located where the bank account is opened. Or the company need to be located where the bank account is opened. These need to match in order for 2co to open the account.

Most often it is way easier to get a Cyprus company + Cyprus bank account compared to a Belize setup.

There may of course be other countries where both can be setup easely but I have not seen this so far.

Toggle signature

>> Unlock the Power of OffshoreCorpTalk: Become a Member of the Mentor Group Gold <<​

Latest Video Interviews, Offshore Company Resources, Payment Processing Tips & Tricks, Articles and Anonymity Hints only a click away!
Support the Freedom of Speech of our Community

Disclaimer: Nothing I say should be taken as tax, legal or financial advice. Anything I say is for general informational purposes only. Always seek independent professional advice.​