Offshore Company to Hide my Identity, Dubai?

[Forester]

PinkCat said:
2. sounds interesting, but few questions where do you plan to bank with the Dubai company, in which jurisdiction?
Some extra questions:
A. If its within EU, it might be hard to open bank account for that company and if you do you must be declared as UBO in your country.
B. If you are going to bank in Dubai with the Dubai company your customers might (or at least some of them) have hard time wiring the money, if you will be working with wires at all of course.

Give us some more details about that, so we can figure out a working model. Because some of them work in theory and when you go to the first bank with some unusual setup they treat you like a criminal and show you the door. Happened to me with HK company wanting to open bank acc within EU.
Even with EU company that is owned by foreign company some banks give you hard time or require lots of extra documents. Happened to me personally as well.
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I agree in full.

In addition: @drain, note/remember this https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/goto/post?id=324854. The US Sales Tax Problem is really an issue.

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[drain]

PinkCat said:
2. sounds interesting, but few questions where do you plan to bank with the Dubai company, in which jurisdiction?
Some extra questions:
A. If its within EU, it might be hard to open bank account for that company and if you do you must be declared as UBO in your country.
B. If you are going to bank in Dubai with the Dubai company your customers might (or at least some of them) have hard time wiring the money, if you will be working with wires at all of course.

Give us some more details about that, so we can figure out a working model. Because some of them work in theory and when you go to the first bank with some unusual setup they treat you like a criminal and show you the door. Happened to me with HK company wanting to open bank acc within EU.
Even with EU company that is owned by foreign company some banks give you hard time or require lots of extra documents. Happened to me personally as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I only receive payments with cards/ paypal etc. No bank transfer. I don't do B2B and I have relationships with payment processors for accepting payments (They said Dubai company would be good for them). Customers are worldwide, but the biggest part is EU + US + UK + Australia + Canada.

I only need a bank account to settle the card/ paypal payments and also use this bank account to pay my business expenses and have my own credit card to pay business expenses. Currently, I mainly use Wise for day-to-day business expenses as it is easy to send money internationally (so it would be a plus if Wise is accepted for a Dubai company). I usually use EUR / USD.

Forester said:
I agree in full.

In addition: @drain, note/remember this https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/goto/post?id=324854. The US Sales Tax Problem is really an issue.
Click to expand...

I am aware of that. I once read a lot about that topic and I'm sure I dont have a nexus there. Additionally, it is extremely complicated, especially for non-physical goods since I can not verify the real location of the customer with guarantee. It is practically impossible because of its complexity (every state/ city has different rules, rates, thresholds, ...) unless you are a big corp. I let the customer select the billing country and it may happen that they select another country when there is no tax. And I can not verify that. But if anyone has experience with that topic (in terms of non-physical goods and internet business, you may message me).

 

[PinkCat]

drain said:
Thanks.

I only receive payments with cards/ paypal etc. No bank transfer. I don't do B2B and I have relationships with payment processors for accepting payments (They said Dubai company would be good for them). Customers are worldwide, but the biggest part is EU + US + UK + Australia + Canada.

I only need a bank account to settle the card/ paypal payments and also use this bank account to pay my business expenses and have my own credit card to pay business expenses. Currently, I mainly use Wise for day-to-day business expenses as it is easy to send money internationally (so it would be a plus if Wise is accepted for a Dubai company). I usually use EUR / USD.


I am aware of that. I once read a lot about that topic and I'm sure I dont have a nexus there. Additionally, it is extremely complicated, especially for non-physical goods since I can not verify the real location of the customer with guarantee. It is practically impossible because of its complexity (every state/ city has different rules, rates, thresholds, ...) unless you are a big corp. I let the customer select the billing country and it may happen that they select another country when there is no tax. And I can not verify that. But if anyone has experience with that topic (in terms of non-physical goods and internet business, you may message me).
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In this case seems (at first glance) that both suggested options (1. and 2.) should work. Actually I don't even see a need for the EU company at all. However, I would check with people that offer incorporation and bank accounts opening in Dubai how hard will be to open bank account in Dubai for company with no substance there. My understanding is you sell digital product/service that has nothing to do with Dubai and you will not reside in Dubai?
Last time I checked people were complaining it got much harder to open business bank accs in Dubai even for companies with substance there depending on the sector and that for free zone companies it's even harder. However, someone with good relationship with a bank might be able to overcome that for a fee. But that is the critical single point of failure I see in your plan so far, given that you have good relationship with your payment processor already. Otherwise that would be the other weak point.
In short, in most of those plans/setups getting reliable banking is usually the hardest part.

p.s.
disclosure, i'm in a hurry and haven't given it deep thought but those are my first thoughts about it. Hope it helps though.

 

[Forester]

drain said:
I only receive payments with cards/ paypal etc. No bank transfer. I don't do B2B and I have relationships with payment processors for accepting payments (They said Dubai company would be good for them). Customers are worldwide, but the biggest part is EU + US + UK + Australia + Canada.

I only need a bank account to settle the card/ paypal payments and also use this bank account to pay my business expenses and have my own credit card to pay business expenses. Currently, I mainly use Wise for day-to-day business expenses as it is easy to send money internationally (so it would be a plus if Wise is accepted for a Dubai company). I usually use EUR / USD.
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That's quite fine, then.

drain said:
I am aware of that. I once read a lot about that topic and I'm sure I dont have a nexus there.
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Well. As I have already said, US taxmen are not less money-hungry than their colleagues around the world 😉 With all due respect, I do not recommend to think that just reading a lot makes you smarter than they are (or at least sufficiently smart) 🙁 .

drain said:
Additionally, it is extremely complicated,
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Yes it is; but unfortunately, this does not make you free of all the obligations...

drain said:
especially for non-physical goods since I can not verify the real location of the customer with guarantee. It is practically impossible because of its complexity (every state/ city has different rules, rates, thresholds, ...) unless you are a big corp. I let the customer select the billing country and it may happen that they select another country when there is no tax. And I can not verify that.
Click to expand...

Your unability to verify that the customer has not made a mistake (unintentionally or intentionally) is not your fail, under condition you deployed sufficiently fair measures to prevent it.

drain said:
But if anyone has experience with that topic (in terms of non-physical goods and internet business, you may message me).
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From what I have seen, engaging a merchant of record is frequently/usually a solution deployed in such a case.

PinkCat said:
Last time I checked people were complaining it got much harder to open business bank accs in Dubai even for companies with substance there depending on the sector and that for free zone companies it's even harder.
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True.

PinkCat said:
However, someone with good relationship with a bank might be able to overcome that for a fee.
Click to expand...

Exactly 🙂

PinkCat said:
In short, in most of those plans/setups getting reliable banking is usually the hardest part.
Click to expand...

I agree in general. Nevertheless for @drain 's case, US sales tax is the most challenging problem, IMO.

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I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[GPT]

drain said:
I let the customer select the billing country and it may happen that they select another country when there is no tax. And I can not verify that. But if anyone has experience with that topic (in terms of non-physical goods and internet business, you may message me).
Click to expand...

At the very least you log different details in the ordering process, such as Physical and IP address. If they correspond then you have at least proof that you did what is within your reach.

Claiming that you cannot verify something wont hold anywhere.

 

[uplana]

drain said:
I only need a bank account to settle the card/ paypal payments and also use this bank account to pay my business expenses and have my own credit card to pay business expenses. Currently, I mainly use Wise for day-to-day business expenses as it is easy to send money internationally (so it would be a plus if Wise is accepted for a Dubai company). I usually use EUR / USD.
Click to expand...

What stops you from simply open an UAE account for your company there and get the funds from Wise transferred to this account ?

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[EliasIT]

GPT said:
Claiming that you cannot verify something wont hold anywhere.
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Very true, today you can find so many tools that can help you logging your customers data in case of chargebacks.

Try
https://www.maxmind.com/en/home

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[sebastian]

PinkCat said:
care to give more details about that or a link with detailed info about it please?
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Sorry it is a good friend of mine who just did this and told me about it. I saw the passport because I told him I could not believe what he said. Anyway, it's possible and don't require special connections in Turkey.

 

[PinkCat]

sebastian said:
Sorry it is a good friend of mine who just did this and told me about it. I saw the passport because I told him I could not believe what he said. Anyway, it's possible and don't require special connections in Turkey.
Click to expand...

I did some fast research and ideed it is possible for just $400k investment in turkish real estate and you get to choose your name! That indeed very curious option, I guess we should start a new thread for it though 🙂

source: https://righthome.com.tr/en/blogs/1...aining-turkish-citizenship-through-investment

 

[Forester]

PinkCat said:
I did some fast research and ideed it is possible for just $400k investment in turkish real estate and you get to choose your name! That indeed very curious option, I guess we should start a new thread for it though 🙂

source: https://righthome.com.tr/en/blogs/1...aining-turkish-citizenship-through-investment
Click to expand...

Yes, this is really interesting. Almost “too good to be true” 😉
Of course, the devil can be hidden behind details; e.g. I presume that Turkish goverment keeps your original name in the records and it is linked to your new name forever ”“ consequences are clear...

A new thread dedicated to this has been started here https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...turkish-citizenship-through-investment.46517/ (the relevant posts copied). Please, go there with any relevant dicussion.

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I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[drphantom]

drain said:
Hello!

I have a limited liability company registered in Europe and unfortunately, all details are publicly disclosed (ceo/ shareholder names and details, addresses, etc.). My goal is to hide my own identity for a better privacy. My business is in no way illegal or shady, but I just do not want to have everything publicly available since I value my privacy. In my country there is no way to incorporate a company that hides those personal details.

The goal here is NOT to evade taxes. Since I live in europe, I will still pay my taxes here.

My idea:
- Incorporate a dubai freezone company and bill all customers through that dubai company. My customers will only "see" the dubai company. The shareholder of the dubai company is my european company.
- Forward all sales (minus a small management fee) to my european company. That means the dubai company will not have significant profits.
- This way, I still have the profits/ taxes in europe but my "public" business activities are routed through the Dubai company

Does this work? Is a dubai freezone company really discreet, i. e. is it impossible to gather the names / addresses/ personal details of the ceo/ shareholders? If not, what countries or companies could provide that?

Thank you for your help!
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May I ask what you have concluded? You have received a lot of responses here, so it would be great to know what the final outcome is.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Privacy is no longer achievable with conventional methods.

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[jorge]

drain said:
My company is making 6 figs a month.

Digital services. No shipping involved.
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Can I ask you if you went with a US LLC, DUBAI LTD or what did you setup to avoid your name to be public?

I have been following a few threads here and there also in the secret forums for MG if you use some of the methods there which I believe still work well i.e. some sort of nominee or imaginer friend model you could succeed with your plans.

 

[diro]

JohnnyDoe said:
Privacy is no longer achievable with conventional methods.
Click to expand...

Imaginary friends works always and will work always.

 

[drain]

Update:
My goal was to incorporate a company where my details (shareholder, director) are not publicly accessible for journalists, customers, competitors, etc. Real anonymity, i.e. that my details are also hidden from governments/ authorities seams extremely hard and expensive so I will not follow this route.

I decided to incorporate a Dubai freezone company (IFZA) where I am personally the own shareholder and director.

Some points I figured out:

1. It doesnt make much sense to have my EU company own the Dubai company. Also, the setup cost & time of that would be much greater and more complex. I would still have to declare the UBO in the UAE.
2. UAE / Freezone have UBO registers and require that, but it is not public. Only available to government.
3. UAE Freezone has no public register of shareholder/ director data. Unless there is a leak or someone goes through court, there is no way to find out director/ shareholder names. Again, only available to government/ authorities. The freezone told me that and I also was not able to find out the details of some Dubai companies.
4. Cyprus has public shareholder/ director register available to everyone online. Would need nominees to hide my identity. And there is still non public UBO register as far as I know. Malta is probably similar.
5. US LLC in specific states would be the best for anonymity, but I dont want to deal with US authorities nor own a company there, so this is no option.
6. I am also thinking of moving to Dubai at a later point to also have lower tax, and I would prefer Dubai over Cyprus/ Malta to live probably. Also I dont need nominees in Dubai and to have the same effect in countries like Cyprus I would need nominees.
7. One need a Visa from Dubai to be able to open bank accounts for the company (need to travel there, but not live there)

I havent incorporated the new company yet.

Let me know if you have anything to add here.

 

[James Turner]

If you just want to hide your identity from competitors, journalists etc it is very easy and there are many country options available. The use of a simple Nominee will work in most cases. IFZA is a good location but UAE in general is more complicated than some locations and generally more costly.

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[yngmind]

James Turner said:
If you just want to hide your identity from competitors, journalists etc it is very easy and there are many country options available. The use of a simple Nominee will work in most cases. IFZA is a good location but UAE in general is more complicated than some locations and generally more costly.
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True, CY LTD with the nominees seems like an option.

But I believe, that you still can find the UBO if you pay like $50 for the report, correct me if I'm wrong.

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[James Turner]

That's in Cyprus, but many countries there is no accessible UBO register.

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[yngmind]

James Turner said:
That's in Cyprus, but many countries there is no accessible UBO register.
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For example? Not many, and you don't want your company in those EU countries.

In most EU countries you can access the info about the UBO.

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[CyprusLawyer101]

yngmind said:
True, CY LTD with the nominees seems like an option.

But I believe, that you still can find the UBO if you pay like $50 for the report, correct me if I'm wrong.
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No you shouldn't be able to retrieve the UBO. What report would that be?