Crypto to real estate investment (not retail buy) jurisdictions? Bypassing banks

[OKboomer]

Hi all,

I am interested in investing in real estate. Note that investing in real estate does not mean buying some shiny low quality apartment that will be unattractive in 3-5 years. Nearly every real estate deal I have seen touting that they accept crypto is either low quality that nobody wants to buy or a regular deal but marked up a few per cent for crypto payment, and also it's mostly targeting retail (whether regular or rich retail). What about the situations where I might want to actually invest into real estate, either special situations, or upcoming construction,etc. Any jurisdictions where on can just use crypto to invest and bypass banks altogether? I obviously don't want to be limited to the poor options where crypto is openly accepted.

I need not only acceptance of the seller here, but also acceptance of notaries in case of a deed transfer, as in most countries they strictly require a proof of bank transfer under your / your company name.

Any ideas?
Thanks

 

[wellington]

OKboomer said:
Hi all,

I am interested in investing in real estate. Note that investing in real estate does not mean buying some shiny low quality apartment that will be unattractive in 3-5 years. Nearly every real estate deal I have seen touting that they accept crypto is either low quality that nobody wants to buy or a regular deal but marked up a few per cent for crypto payment, and also it's mostly targeting retail (whether regular or rich retail). What about the situations where I might want to actually invest into real estate, either special situations, or upcoming construction,etc. Any jurisdictions where on can just use crypto to invest and bypass banks altogether? I obviously don't want to be limited to the poor options where crypto is openly accepted.

I need not only acceptance of the seller here, but also acceptance of notaries in case of a deed transfer, as in most countries they strictly require a proof of bank transfer under your / your company name.

Any ideas?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Basically you want to join a development?

Problem is you have competition as most of that money is Chinese or Russian being washed through the development side in tourist areas

 

[OKboomer]

wellington said:
Basically you want to join a development?

Problem is you have competition as most of that money is Chinese or Russian being washed through the development side in tourist areas
Click to expand...

That's the crazy thing, so I have to compete with people washing their money (who are therefore happy to lose some percentage of it due to them trying to hide the potentially criminal origin of the money), so of course developers will prefer buyers who don't care if they enter a bad deal, because they have a different goal from capital gain...

So does this mean that the popularity of development being used for money laundering makes it by default an unattractive Option for you, if you actually are NOT laundering money, but just want to invest ?

 

[wellington]

OKboomer said:
That's the crazy thing, so I have to compete with people washing their money (who are therefore happy to lose some percentage of it due to them trying to hide the potentially criminal origin of the money), so of course developers will prefer buyers who don't care if they enter a bad deal, because they have a different goal from capital gain...

So does this mean that the popularity of development being used for money laundering makes it by default an unattractive Option for you, if you actually are NOT laundering money, but just want to invest ?
Click to expand...

It's not so much criminal origin but capital control violations, i.e Chinese getting funds out of China into Western Markets, i know in-depth how it occurs and via which routes, usually its a underground MBS process, i.e shadow banking.

So from Western perspective it isn't illicit but follows illicit processes.

 

[wellington]

Same applies with Russian's its generic Russian's getting their wealth out of Russia into various markets overseas etc.

 

[OKboomer]

wellington said:
Same applies with Russian's its generic Russian's getting their wealth out of Russia into various markets overseas etc.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but then the logic still applies. Those people are probably ready to pay a few percent to get the money out of those countries. So they will be less demanding towards the said developers.

If I only stand to make a few percent of profits from capital gains anyway, then those few percent kinda matter to me. Otherwise I may / should give up on the idea of diversifying into real estate

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I have done crypto real estate deals in the U.S., Caribbean, Portugal, Italy and I'm negotiating one in Russia. Normal properties, no markup from the sellers, while I offered a discount as a seller.

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[OKboomer]

JohnnyDoe said:
I have done crypto real estate deals in the U.S., Caribbean, Portugal, Italy and I'm negotiating one in Russia. Normal properties, no markup from the sellers, while I offered a discount as a seller.
Click to expand...

Interesting. At least in the two EU countries you mentioned, no notary was willing to use a crypto transaction as proof of payment and thus they refused to process the real estate transfer with crypto as payment.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

OKboomer said:
Interesting. At least in the two EU countries you mentioned, no notary was willing to use a crypto transaction as proof of payment and thus they refused to process the real estate transfer with crypto as payment.
Click to expand...

In civil law jurisdictions, the price paid (and the accompanying transaction) is not an essential element of a contract.
The payment is an obligation deriving from the contract.
The price must either be indicated or be determinable (For example “market price”).
You are not required to specify how payment has been or will be made.
You are not required to provide any “Proof of payment” to the notary, if a notary asks this then go to a different one.
You are free to transfer your property in exchange for anything you like, at the price you like, at the conditions you set.
Typically, you write in the contract that the payment has already been made or will be made in the future. If you want to be extra precise and create traceability (Useful for having a proof of origin of funds later), mention the transaction hash in the deed.

Last edited: Oct 19, 2024
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[OKboomer]

JohnnyDoe said:
In civil law jurisdictions, the price (and the accompanying transaction) is not an essential element of a contract. You are not required to provide any “Proof of payment” to the notary, if a notary asks this then go to a different one. You are free to transfer your property in exchange for anything you like, at the price you like, at the conditions you set. Typically, you write in the contract that the payment has already been made or will be made in the future. If you want to be extra precise and create traceability (Useful for having a proof of origin of funds later), mention the transaction hash in the deed.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Offered that to many notaries , all refused. Also lawyers told me it's illegal. I guess need to use the law of big numbers... Crazy. Thanks for the tip

 

[JohnnyDoe]

OKboomer said:
Thank you. Offered that to many notaries , all refused. Also lawyers told me it's illegal. I guess need to use the law of big numbers... Crazy. Thanks for the tip
Click to expand...

Yes, it happened to me too. Keep searching and you will find some that understand the law. There is no shortage of lawyers and notaries.

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[donna4]

You can take a look at Immobilium

 

[proxmox16]

JohnnyDoe said:
I have done crypto real estate deals in the U.S., Caribbean, Portugal, Italy and I'm negotiating one in Russia. Normal properties, no markup from the sellers, while I offered a discount as a seller.
Click to expand...

Hi, can u pls write PM

 

[koohl]

JohnnyDoe said:
I have done crypto real estate deals in the U.S., Caribbean, Portugal, Italy and I'm negotiating one in Russia. Normal properties, no markup from the sellers, while I offered a discount as a seller.
Click to expand...

And how does one find such investment opportunities? They are not exactly hanging on trees; you need connections to find them.

Chinese and Russians are involved in a large part of the world's construction projects, whether it's illegally constructed hotels in Bulgaria, money laundering in developing countries, or (in the case of the Chinese) getting money out of the country and investing it outside their crazy dictatorship.

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[JohnnyDoe]

koohl said:
And how does one find such investment opportunities?
Click to expand...

Sometimes all you need to do is just ask, especially when you find a good deal (which means the seller is motivated).

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[sebastian]

OKboomer said:
Thank you. Offered that to many notaries , all refused. Also lawyers told me it's illegal. I guess need to use the law of big numbers... Crazy. Thanks for the tip
Click to expand...

What country are these notaries if you don't mind to share?

 

[JozefMrkvicka]

Good real estate for crypto could be done in Dubai as well. DM if interested

 

[asaud]

OKboomer said:
Hi all,

I am interested in investing in real estate. Note that investing in real estate does not mean buying some shiny low quality apartment that will be unattractive in 3-5 years. Nearly every real estate deal I have seen touting that they accept crypto is either low quality that nobody wants to buy or a regular deal but marked up a few per cent for crypto payment, and also it's mostly targeting retail (whether regular or rich retail). What about the situations where I might want to actually invest into real estate, either special situations, or upcoming construction,etc. Any jurisdictions where on can just use crypto to invest and bypass banks altogether? I obviously don't want to be limited to the poor options where crypto is openly accepted.

I need not only acceptance of the seller here, but also acceptance of notaries in case of a deed transfer, as in most countries they strictly require a proof of bank transfer under your / your company name.

Any ideas?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Out of Dubai you have options like Serbia, Turkey, Montenegro.

As said before you will be in competition with Russians and Chinese. But out of these Turkey has much more ROI if you know where to look at

About notary; you will make agreement like "property price (will be) paid in cash"

 

[JimBeam]

asaud said:
Out of Dubai you have options like Serbia, Turkey, Montenegro.

As said before you will be in competition with Russians and Chinese. But out of these Turkey has much more ROI if you know where to look at

About notary; you will make agreement like "property price (will be) paid in cash"
Click to expand...

Construction quality in Dubai is s**t but at least it won't fall down on the earthquake like it happened in Turkey couple years ago.
I would not buy anything in Turkey for that reason alone.

Anyone knows can it be done in Georgia?

 

[asaud]

JimBeam said:
Construction quality in Dubai is s**t but at least it won't fall down on the earthquake like it happened in Turkey couple years ago.
I would not buy anything in Turkey for that reason alone.

Anyone knows can it be done in Georgia?
Click to expand...

Well, you need to do your own research ofcourse. There is plenty of properties in Dubai that the wall would be broken by just a smash, there is plenty of properties in Turkey thats low quality crap which wont follow regulations.

And yes it can also be done in Georgia