EU: Any way to have no UBO or avoid its publication?

[clemens]

Nominees may indeed work well, make sure you have control of everything if you give any nominee the key to your business!

Toggle signature
One of my favorit articles in Mentor Group ~ Sending money anonymously archieve Financial Anonymity

 

[EliasIT]

If you appoint the nominees from a trusted law firm or accounting firm you may be 90% safe, if you don't share any access to bank accounts etc. you may be 100% safe.

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[GPT]

clemens said:
Nominees may indeed work well, make sure you have control of everything if you give any nominee the key to your business!
Click to expand...

Sorry to burst your bubble...

The nominee ultimately has control. Say you having viewing rights.. the nominee director can cancel those at any point in time for you.
Say you have a nominee shareholder with a bare trust deed. What are you going to do when they dont keep their word?

In both cases all you have is going legal.

 

[clemens]

I don't give him access to anything at all, you can take the discussion inside mentor group and I will tell you what I have done. It's very simple trick to avoid the nominees to do any nasty stuff.

Toggle signature
One of my favorit articles in Mentor Group ~ Sending money anonymously archieve Financial Anonymity

 

[dirtyharry]

clemens said:
I don't give him access to anything at all, you can take the discussion inside mentor group and I will tell you what I have done. It's very simple trick to avoid the nominees to do any nasty stuff.
Click to expand...

Will you reply here please, I opened an thread inside mentor group. Thanks!

 

[clemens]

dirtyharry said:
Will you reply here please, I opened an thread inside mentor group. Thanks!
Click to expand...

yes, will do

Toggle signature
One of my favorit articles in Mentor Group ~ Sending money anonymously archieve Financial Anonymity

 

[brianK]

dirtyharry said:
Will you reply here please, I opened an thread inside mentor group. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Thank you for enlightening us with your setup. For most people it may be better to find a solution that is provided by professionals.

Toggle signature
Winners never quit and quitters never win....

 

[PinkCat]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Bulgaria doesn't have an online registry that lists the UBO?
So US corp > owns BG company you declare yourself as UBO in Bulgaria, but shouldn't be listed anywhere. Government will know though.
I think there is criminal penalty if you fail to register UBO in BG.

 

[Don]

PinkCat said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Bulgaria doesn't have an online registry that lists the UBO?
So US corp > owns BG company you declare yourself as UBO in Bulgaria, but shouldn't be listed anywhere. Government will know though.
I think there is criminal penalty if you fail to register UBO in BG.
Click to expand...

Bulgaria does not maintain a separate UBO register, however has it integrated the UBO data in its trade register. When searching the register, which is free, can be done without account but is in Bulgarian only, an extra menu option shows the ”˜Ð”ействителни собственици' or ”˜Actual owner'.

Whats often overlooked is opportunity to operate as a branch office of a foreign company.
Branches normally do not disclose UBO-s.

Funnily enough some jurisdictions allow operating as a branch office even when the parent entity is liquidated.

 

[Rexstone]

mraleph said:
Though, the UBO registrar may be introduced from 2025
Click to expand...

what is your source? I live in switzerland and i was not aware of this, not even able to find the information anywhere

 

[mraleph]

Rexstone said:
what is your source? I live in switzerland and i was not aware of this, not even able to find the information anywhere
Click to expand...

It was a typo regarding the year - 2026 is now discussed - but wouldn't be suprised to be enacted anyway in 2025 due to close timeframe for 2027 FATF evaluation

https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/dokumentation/medienmitteilungen.msg-id-101100.html
https://www.lenzstaehelin.com/news-...of-a-federal-register-of-beneficial-owners-1/

Last edited: Sep 26, 2024

 

[GPT]

Rexstone said:
what is your source? I live in switzerland and i was not aware of this, not even able to find the information anywhere
Click to expand...

Its being discussed for several years already.

https://www.step.org/industry-news/...ns-work-central-register-beneficial-ownership
This is a nice start. At the bottom of the article there are some more links.

 

[GPT]

mraleph said:
It was a typo regarding the year - 2026 is now discussed - but wouldn't be suprised to be enacted anyway in 2025 due to close timeframe for 2027 FATF evaluation

https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/dokumentation/medienmitteilungen.msg-id-101100.html
https://www.lenzstaehelin.com/news-...of-a-federal-register-of-beneficial-owners-1/
Click to expand...

Initially I remember they planned on implementing in 2023. In sofar I am aware 2025 is on the table. At the same time, I wouldnt be surprised if they postpone until 2026. In the end they will implement as its part of the 5th AML directive.

https://kpmg.com/ch/en/insights/law/ubo-beneficial-owner-registers.html

 

[sebastian]

very well then, Switzerland is being more and more worthless as a place to have your business operation if privacy matters!

 

[GPT]

sebastian said:
very well then, Switzerland is being more and more worthless as a place to have your business operation if privacy matters!
Click to expand...

Like almost anywhere else.

Privacy isn't easy to arrange anymore if you want to fully oblige with all regulations directives and or laws.

 

[lory]

GPT said:
Like almost anywhere else.

Privacy isn't easy to arrange anymore if you want to fully oblige with all regulations directives and or laws.
Click to expand...

That is very true, I believe there are good options for people with money the rest is simply lost.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

Old thread, but can't you set up a structure with multiple companies owning each other? I believe that's one way to avoid the disclosure of the UBO?

 

[GPT]

JustAnotherNomad said:
Old thread, but can't you set up a structure with multiple companies owning each other? I believe that's one way to avoid the disclosure of the UBO?
Click to expand...

That was a strategy used by sovereign until around 2010. Somewhere around that time they ended up in many legal battles regarding that setup and had to discontinue it.

Also, dont forget that they are looking for an Ultimate Beneficial Owner i.e. natural persons. If you cant provide one (which you propose with your idea) the opening of the bank account is likely not happening.

Personally I believe the only option to avoid having to disclose UBO's is when you have 4 or more shareholders which makes that none of them have the ultimate control or benefits. Practically the beneficial owner part will then move to the director(s) as they control the bankaccounts.

 

[cherry]

Couldn't a UBO be something like "English nature" if your companies are ostensibly set up to be an environmental project, for example?

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

No, the UBO is a person.
But you could try setting up a foundation (which could have "protecting English nature" as its purpose) or something, as others have mentioned.