MALTA/DUBAI/HUNGARY/CYPRUS - whats the best play in this scenario?

[JohnLocke]

Don said:
In conclusion - in kind contributions can be a great way to plan taxes.
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Reading the entire thread, that's indeed something that can work out well if one get the help from a professional, considering something like that for some time my self.

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[Marshal]

toums said:
Also if you can recommend which bank in BG ? i assume in HU it's OTP... So is it the subsidiary of OTP in BG (DSK) ? thanks
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I'm not recommending anything. I just don't see any difference between banks in Hungary and Bulgaria.

 

[toums]

Marshal said:
I'm not recommending anything. I just don't see any difference between banks in Hungary and Bulgaria.
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I was asking at @jesuschrist

 

[jesuschrist]

Marshal said:
In Bulgaria banks are riskier than in Hungary? In what way?
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Firstly because local banks in Bulgaria has like 1/100 of the capital compared to local banks in Hungary.

In Hungary you have access to old Austrian banks like Raiffeisen, Erste, Oberbank those are probably even safer than Hungarian ones.
In Bulgaria you have TBI, Texim, Municipal, Tokuda, Eurobank, banks basically nobody ever heard about outside of Bulgaria.
The Hungarian OTP Bank has branches almost everywhere in Eastern-Europe.

We already seen that capital requirements in Hungary are strict and safe, when the Russian Sberbank stopped operating they were forced to payback customers all their money even above the insured 100.000 €, in Bulgaria who knows what would happen.
In Bulgaria AML is very strict because lots of past money laundering cases so the EU is watching them closely, they freeze accounts for very little things, in Hungary they might be strict about who can open an account but after I never heard about frozen cases.

Marshal said:
I just don't see any difference between banks in Hungary and Bulgaria.
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For 6 figures sure it's the same risk level, but 8 figures in Bulgarian banks no thanks, I like to sleep at night.

toums said:
Also if you can recommend which bank in BG ? i assume in HU it's OTP... So is it the subsidiary of OTP in BG (DSK) ? thanks
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The safest and biggest is yes probably DSK Bank, but it is still relatively small, the owner OTP bank can decide to sell it anytime.
Other than that probably the branches of international banks, like UniCredit or UBB Bank (KBC Group).

NativeLogos said:
What Hungarian banks do you recommend?
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The 2 biggest: OTP Bank and MHB Bank.
K&H Bank is big too (Belgium KBC group), or Austrian banks like Oberbank, Raiffeisen, Erste.

The new digital banks Granit Bank and MagNet Bank are okay too, but they got fined heavily because they let non-residents open accounts very easily, now they became more strict.

Last edited: Jun 27, 2024

 

[Marshal]

jesuschrist said:
For 6 figures sure it's the same risk level, but 8 figures in Bulgarian banks no thanks, I like to sleep at night.
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No way I would keep 8 figures in a Hungarian bank. Well, maybe in your local currency. No pun intended. I just don't think it's safe to park a big chunk of money in any bank.

As to Bulgarian banks, for a small country like Bulgaria they have enough banks to choose from. Some of them are pretty solid: UniCredit Bulbank, United Bulgarian Bank (owned by KBC Group), Allianz, ProCredit Bank and already mentioned DSK Bank.

 

[toums]

Marshal said:
No way I would keep 8 figures in a Hungarian bank. Well, maybe in your local currency. No pun intended. I just don't think it's safe to park a big chunk of money in any bank.
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The point to use HU banks is not to leave 8 figures on these accounts, but to be able easily to send in/out the money from there. From my opinion it's more like a good step to pass trough this first before sending your money to 'better' bank and using for your investments / buying your expensive stuffs (rea estate, IB or anything else).
Not to keep it there, after it's passed.

 

[Marshal]

toums said:
The point to use HU banks is not to leave 8 figures on these accounts, but to be able easily to send in/out the money from there. From my opinion it's more like a good step to pass trough this first before sending your money to 'better' bank and using for your investments / buying your expensive stuffs (rea estate, IB or anything else).
Not to keep it there, after it's passed.
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Okay, would you mind telling us, what makes banks in HU so special for this first step? Why for example banks in Czech Republic wouldn't suit for this? For individuals, income from trading cryptocurrencies is also taxed at a rate of 15% in CZ. Same like in HU. And I wouldn't say that banks in HU in anyway better than in CZ.

 

[toums]

Marshal said:
Okay, would you mind telling us, what makes banks in HU so special for this first step? Why for example banks in Czech Republic wouldn't suit for this? For individuals, income from trading cryptocurrencies is also taxed at a rate of 15% in CZ. Same like in HU. And I wouldn't say that banks in HU in anyway better than in CZ.
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Based on my experiences and experiences of people I know, Hungary works very well for money in/out without real limits. And bank transfers (at least SEPA) can be done with any amount, no one will block you, or suspend or anything .. Never heard this till now (for cash out crypto, any amount / 7 figures+ of local or oversea real estate selling-buying / dividends from abroad / even I had one good friend cash-out few year ago almost 7 figures from EPT Poker tour without being resident.. no pb).

CZ I know less, but as I saw, banks look more strict.

I don't understand the point with the 15% of tax in HU or CZ ? It has to be paid only if you are tax resident there. Passing the money by these banks dont make you tax resident...

For sure now it's less easy to open bank account as non-resident compare to 10years ago.. But if you can open it, I think it's worth it for 'easy' european banking and not considered as 'grey' banking.

Last edited: Jul 1, 2024

 

[Marshal]

toums said:
Based on my experiences and experiences of people I know, Hungary works very well for money in/out without real limits. And bank transfers (at least SEPA) can be done with any amount, no one will block you, or suspend or anything .. Never heard this till now (for cash out crypto, any amount / 7 figures+ of local or oversea real estate selling-buying / dividends from abroad / even I had one good friend cash-out few year ago almost 7 figures from EPT Poker tour without being resident.. no pb).

CZ I know less, but as I saw, banks look more strict.

I don't understand the point with the 15% of tax in HU or CZ ? It has to be paid only if you are tax resident there. Passing the money by these banks dont make you tax resident...

For sure now it's less easy to open bank account as non-resident compare to 10years ago.. But if you can open it, I think it's worth it for 'easy' european banking and not considered as 'grey' banking.
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Cashing out 7 figures+ €/$ without questions asked in European banks in this day and age that's really surprising to hear. Especially considering that it's crypto and gambling income. Good to know nevertheless.

 

[toums]

Marshal said:
Cashing out 7 figures+ €/$ without questions asked in European banks in this day and age that's really surprising to hear. Especially considering that it's crypto and gambling income. Good to know nevertheless.
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I don't know ALL banks, but I can say he still working likethis in HU banks I know... I have no interest to 'sell' them, I just say what still happen there. And you're right it seem strange in LOT of other countries.

I remember when past years I met some associates of big law firms in Portugal and said to me it's impossible to cash out BIG money from crypto In PT bank (ofc impossible there) and even other european countries. They are just not aware of what's happen on some others juridictions...

I can say SK seem to be almost the same than HU actually.. Maybe bit less but still very OK..

 

[Marshal]

toums said:
I don't know ALL banks, but I can say he still working likethis in HU banks I know... I have no interest to 'sell' them, I just say what still happen there. And you're right it seem strange in LOT of other countries.

I remember when past years I met some associates of big law firms in Portugal and said to me it's impossible to cash out BIG money from crypto In PT bank (ofc impossible there) and even other european countries. They are just not aware of what's happen on some others juridictions...

I can say SK seem to be almost the same than HU actually.. Maybe bit less but still very OK..
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For many people on here it's like finding a gold mine. Why bother with Dubai etc when you can cash out your crypto in EU in € millions with no questions asked and no taxes.

 

[toums]

Marshal said:
For many people on here it's like finding a gold mine. Why bother with Dubai etc when you can cash out your crypto in EU in € millions with no questions asked and no taxes.
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I didn't say it's like this now for new client or new people wanted to deal with (without being resident, it's getting more complicated, but IMO still flexible compare to other juridictions in Europe).

Maybe to increase the chance, if you are from EU you can register in HU to just get a residency card then it would be probably easier, even these days. then just be careful to not meet tax residency requierement there and have a REAL other tax residency country.

(but Ofc it's different with decade background with bank accounts there instead of new bank account now and as non resident / 0 ties with).

I still don't understand your point with cash out / banking / and tax.

if tomorrow you cash out HUGE amont of crypto with swissquote (luxembourg), bank frick (Liechtenstein), HSBC expat (Jersey). Do you will pay tax in these bank juridictions? No.

 

[JonnyStekkino]

Bahrain, pretty much the last liveable tax free place on earth.
Living there is 2-3 times cheaper than Dubai for a similar quality of life.

 

[toums]

JonnyStekkino said:
Bahrain, pretty much the last liveable tax free place on earth.
Living there is 2-3 times cheaper than Dubai for a similar quality of life.
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but need 183days+ a year in Bahrain, no? If you can make a topic with experiences/feedback on Bahrain, can be helpful for OCT community. Thanks

 

[JonnyStekkino]

toums said:
but need 183days+ a year in Bahrain, no? If you can make a topic with experiences/feedback on Bahrain, can be helpful for OCT community. Thanks
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If you go for the company + visa option, yes you need 183+ days, if you go for the self-sponsorship visa (50K BHD+ Real Estate) seems like there is no stay requirement at all.

The process at least for me was rather slow, to get the visa and CPR all done, you need at least 3-4 months, but still amazing considering you can choose up to a 10 year visa.

 

[toums]

JonnyStekkino said:
If you go for the company + visa option, yes you need 183+ days, if you go for the self-sponsorship visa (50K BHD+ Real Estate) seems like there is no stay requirement at all.

The process at least for me was rather slow, to get the visa and CPR all done, you need at least 3-4 months, but still amazing considering you can choose up to a 10 year visa.
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I read you have to stay at least 90days per year in Bahrain..

You can contact there / recommendation (even for real estate?)

You did it by yourself or with a local agency?

Last edited: Jul 8, 2024

 

[JonnyStekkino]

toums said:
I read you have to stay at least 90days per year in Bahrain..

You can contact there / recommendation (even for real estate?)

You did it by yourself or with a local agency?
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Plenty of amazing real estate in Bahrain right now, the quality for the $$ is just IMHO one of the best in the world.

Just check the buildings: Fontana Infinity, ONYX Bahrain Bay, Seef Avenue 1 & 2.

For something around $2200-2400 per sqm you can get an extreme luxury apartment with 10+ amenities, in-house cleaning team, in-house maintenance team. Overall the quality is similar to The Address Dubai & similar buildings, for just 1/5 of the price.

 

[toums]

JonnyStekkino said:
Plenty of amazing real estate in Bahrain right now, the quality for the $$ is just IMHO one of the best in the world.

Just check the buildings: Fontana Infinity, ONYX Bahrain Bay, Seef Avenue 1 & 2.

For something around $2200-2400 per sqm you can get an extreme luxury apartment with 10+ amenities, in-house cleaning team, in-house maintenance team. Overall the quality is similar to The Address Dubai & similar buildings, for just 1/5 of the price.
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Ok interesting .. and how is the life there ? If you compare with Dubai with bar/restaurants, parties, alcohol, dating...

 

[JonnyStekkino]

toums said:
Ok interesting .. and how is the life there ? If you compare with Dubai with bar/restaurants, parties, alcohol, dating...
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Definitely less things to do than Dubai, but it's improving quickly. Quality of the service is very similar, high end restaurants (Cipriani, etc..)
Alcohol is very very relaxed imho, many places serves that, and the clubbing scene is wild, especially in the Juffair area you will find a lot of clubs inside low-end hotels that are open until 10-11 in the morning after.
Dating is ok, better than Dubai if you want a serious thing (you can actually date locals bahrain girls) as well as many foreigner workers (Filipinas and Thai).

Overall a nice place, more relaxed than Dubai but still you have the same convenience for a lower price.

I've lived in Dubai for quite some time in the past and I always felt constantly ripped off for almost everything I had to do.

In Bahrain you can find luxury but also "normal" stuffs for normal prices, and actually do a pretty normal life if you want while living in the center of the city as well.

 

[LiquiditySplash]

DomOCT said:
Croatia, look it up
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Does anyone have more information about Croatia? It sounds good from what I've heard. Tax as low as 10% on crypto to fiat or 0% if you held for at least 2 years, and no tax on crypto to crypto transactions.

Does anyone have any real world practical experience? How is banking? Would it be suitable for large amounts?