THAILAND AND REMITTED INCOME (since last official new rules).

[toums]

One thing is just not clear for me regarding the remitted income in Thailand, since the new rule which are saying you are taxed on any income generated from 01/01/2024 AND remitted in TH.

I am not talking and avoid for now the new discussion regarding the possibility to be taxed in the future on your worldwide income, remitted or not in TH.

A) Any oversea incomes generated before 01/01/2024 can be remitted tax free in Thailand anytime (in 2024, 2025 or later)

B) If you generated foreign income (capital gains, dividends etc..) in 2024 BUT you spent less than 180 days in Thailand in 2024 (and incidentally never been TH tax resident yet) AND you start to be tax resident for 2025. Can you remit these foreign income tax free in 2025 or later?

I am not sure if you have to remit the foreign income in Thailand the same year your are not tax resident (you have income in 2024 but not TH tax resident, so you can bring them in TH the same year 2024) , AND/OR you can remit them in 2025 or 2026 for example (when you are TH tax resident) if you earned them in 2024 without being TH tax resident at this time..

Thank for the clarification.

 

[Mercury]

toums said:
B) If you generated foreign income (capital gains, dividends etc..) in 2024 BUT you spent less than 180 days in Thailand in 2024 (and incidentally never been TH tax resident yet) AND you start to be tax resident for 2025. Can you remit these foreign income tax free in 2025 or later?
Click to expand...

Interpretations vary. The risk is, if audited, TRD officer could not really appreciate the tax-free fact you've earned the remitted income a year you were not Thai tax resident.
Rather remit true exempted income or during a year you are not Thai tax resident.

 

[wellington]

Mercury said:
Interpretations vary. The risk is, if audited, TRD officer could not really appreciate the tax-free fact you've earned the remitted income a year you were not Thai tax resident.
Rather remit true exempted income or during a year you are not Thai tax resident.
Click to expand...

They will go on CRS data - I believe - for what it's worth.

Best way is to keep savings in stablecoins as then it's shown to be matured and you can even earn yield now from one being launched in UAE.

 

[Mercury]

wellington said:
Best way is to keep savings in stablecoins as then it's shown to be matured and you can even earn yield now from one being launched in UAE.
Click to expand...

Do you think TRD would accept your wallet screenshot or CEX statement as evidence?
They might ask documentation from traditional regulated financial institutions only...

 

[JackAlabama]

Mercury said:
Do you think TRD would accept your wallet screenshot or CEX statement as evidence?
They might ask documentation from traditional regulated financial institutions only...
Click to expand...

you can cryptographically sign with your own wallet private key. This is actually the best method to prove whatever needed if you want to.

But if they, unable to even create a working online system for the 90 days report, understand such matters, I have my doubt.

wellington said:
They will go on CRS data - I believe - for what it's worth.
Click to expand...

which is very messy and should not arrive in such places anyway for ones own personal safety against kidnapping (real risk) and stuff (unless numbers are low and blend in well with the crowd) 😉

wellington said:
Best way is to keep savings in stablecoins as then it's shown to be matured and you can even earn yield now from one being launched in UAE.
Click to expand...

agree.

 

[toums]

wellington said:
They will go on CRS data - I believe - for what it's worth.

Best way is to keep savings in stablecoins as then it's shown to be matured and you can even earn yield now from one being launched in UAE.
Click to expand...

1) Probably CRS information can be still 'hidden' for your official tax resident country if you have 2/3 bases somewhere in the world when you spend bit of time in the year (but still avoiding your home country). And just not updating your new address in your different banks / brokers / CEX...

Not a solution maybe for 10years from now, but probably still some years for sure.

2) that was my question, how you can prove (and with acceptable paper) if RD ask you to prove your wealth/saving if it's stablecoin in a cold wallet or in a DEX or CEX ?
Any particular reason to use a stablecoin in UAE vs Kraken/Binance ? Still 5.75% for usd (fiat) and usdt on kraken.. On binance, yield changing everyday, actually 7,xx %

Normally from end of june, Binance will not allow any EU resident for the USDT reward program EXCEPT if you already subscribed it. If you unstack and re-stack after the 01/07/2024, normally it will not work anymore (except if you have an adress outside EU registered in the CEX).

 

[wellington]

LUSD - it's rebasing like other rebasing tokens but is usd that gets yield - just being launched out of Dubai.

The problem with people is they used CEXs, generally speaking if I live in the UK and bank in HK - the UK doesn't have authority to dictate to a HK company what services the HK company can offer me, and the HK company doesn't have to abide by UK law.

This is/was the case with the US also until the US for some reason started bastardizing their interpretation with crypto - on the SECs own website as far back as 2019 they make this clear in a 500 letter e-doc.

Now with Crypto for what ever reason you have UK/EU/US pushing its laws on an overseas company to comply with the domestic laws of said country.

Now with LUSD and the ETHENA one you are starting to see on-chain USD yield either via rebasing or via other means.

Mercury said:
Do you think TRD would accept your wallet screenshot or CEX statement as evidence?
They might ask documentation from traditional regulated financial institutions only...
Click to expand...

When you submit say information on your assets for say a property sale and transfer the principle and not the capital gains you don't have to provide documentation - you just declare what you earned and what was savings and transfer - it's only during an audit you need to have this information

Last edited: Jun 8, 2024

 

[toums]

are you talking about this token ?
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/liquity-usd/
If yes, look very far in the CMC, low market cap and no liquidity.. and currently even not pegged 1/1.

 

[Radko]

toums said:
One thing is just not clear for me regarding the remitted income in Thailand, since the new rule which are saying you are taxed on any income generated from 01/01/2024 AND remitted in TH.

I am not talking and avoid for now the new discussion regarding the possibility to be taxed in the future on your worldwide income, remitted or not in TH.

A) Any oversea incomes generated before 01/01/2024 can be remitted tax free in Thailand anytime (in 2024, 2025 or later)

B) If you generated foreign income (capital gains, dividends etc..) in 2024 BUT you spent less than 180 days in Thailand in 2024 (and incidentally never been TH tax resident yet) AND you start to be tax resident for 2025. Can you remit these foreign income tax free in 2025 or later?

I am not sure if you have to remit the foreign income in Thailand the same year your are not tax resident (you have income in 2024 but not TH tax resident, so you can bring them in TH the same year 2024) , AND/OR you can remit them in 2025 or 2026 for example (when you are TH tax resident) if you earned them in 2024 without being TH tax resident at this time..

Thank for the clarification.
Click to expand...

Declare your savings before you officially become a tax resident and you'll be able to enjoy those savings in Thailand tax free.

 

[toums]

Radko said:
Declare your savings before you officially become a tax resident and you'll be able to enjoy those savings in Thailand tax free.
Click to expand...

But how and which way ?

Because if no thai TIN, no Thai bank account, and all savings / investments (principle) are abroad , how to do that?!

 

[wellington]

Radko said:
Declare your savings before you officially become a tax resident and you'll be able to enjoy those savings in Thailand tax free.
Click to expand...

You don't need to declare anything - you just provide proof when audited.

The moment you have to do annual tax declarations on assets it's most certainly time to move on for that information will be shared and western Goverments are looking everywhere to find what they can tax via new methods to cover their s**t show of buying off the electorate during Covid - in which case non residents didn't benefit from any capacity and ln my case negatively from taking their poison and having two heart attacks.

 

[JackAlabama]

wellington said:
You don't need to declare anything - you just provide proof when audited.

The moment you have to do annual tax declarations on assets it's most certainly time to move on for that information will be shared and western Goverments are looking everywhere to find what they can tax via new methods to cover their s**t show of buying off the electorate during Covid - in which case non residents didn't benefit from any capacity and ln my case negatively from taking their poison and having two heart attacks.
Click to expand...

damn i heard so many adverse effects in my circles. Hope youre can overcome this.

Yeah a wealth tax / asset declaration on a worldwide basis would be an absolute no for such a banana republic which enjoys 0 data protection and 0 rights for foreigners and where the only safety measure is to not stick out and blend in.

 

[ecool]

Thailand and Malaysia started to tax expats living there, but no benefits for them, only pay and pay for fees and visas, no health care, no public schools, nothing, paying without benefits

 

[Radko]

toums said:
But how and which way ?

Because if no thai TIN, no Thai bank account, and all savings / investments (principle) are abroad , how to do that?!
Click to expand...

You declare that when you go to get your Visa, or as @wellington mentioned when get audited (Banks will report your transactions to tax authorities and you have to declare).

So keep your bank statements.

 

[JackAlabama]

Radko said:
You declare that when you go to get your Visa, or as @wellington mentioned when get audited (Banks will report your transactions to tax authorities and you have to declare).

So keep your bank statements.
Click to expand...

So far nothing can/needs to be done. Ppl still get elite visas and dont have to show anything.
Id expect the elite visa to be exempt from all this nonsense bureaucratic bs 😉.

 

[Radko]

JackAlabama said:
So far nothing can/needs to be done. Ppl still get elite visas and dont have to show anything.
Id expect the elite visa to be exempt from all this nonsense bureaucratic bs 😉.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know you don't have to, but better to tell them in advance how much savings you have before becoming a Tax resident (at least that's what I did, just to make sure that I'll never have to pay taxes on my savings).

 

[wellington]

Radko said:
Yes, I know you don't have to, but better to tell them in advance how much savings you have before becoming a Tax resident (at least that's what I did, just to make sure that I'll never have to pay taxes on my savings).
Click to expand...

I have a better solution - have savings in auditable assets.

Only when there is an audit that you need to show where the funds came from”¦

 

[Radko]

wellington said:
I have a better solution - have savings in auditable assets.

Only when there is an audit that you need to show where the funds came from”¦
Click to expand...

I showed them my stock portfolio, but then they told me that the LTR visa doesn't pay taxes, so even better.

 

[JackAlabama]

Radko said:
I showed them my stock portfolio, but then they told me that the LTR visa doesn't pay taxes, so even better.
Click to expand...

ah so you did the ltr thing. Well yeh then its different.
But many other visa types dont need to show anything so gotta do as @wellington suggests.

 

[toums]

@Radko

I still don't get the way you 'showed' them your wealth/saving before being TH tax resident.. You send to the RD an english letter with some copy of portfolio / bank statements or what? OR it's because you just said you got the LTR wealth citizen visa and for that you have to prove you have more than USD 1M$ in asset and US 80K$+ in income in the past 2 years..?

You just sent this like a screenshot your IB portfolio by email at the BOI ?

wellington said:
I have a better solution - have savings in auditable assets.

Only when there is an audit that you need to show where the funds came from”¦
Click to expand...

Like IB balance / crypto CEX balance / 'standard' bank accounts ?

JackAlabama said:
Id expect the elite visa to be exempt from all this nonsense bureaucratic bs 😉.
Click to expand...

Honestly yes, it would make SENSE to do that IF they apply worlwide taxation :

ELITE : no tax if not remitted
LTR : no tax even if remitted
Retired : no tax for pension, the rest taxed (ofc with DTA rules)
other visa : worldwide tax

OR just stay maximum 179 days a year in the kindgom.

JackAlabama said:
Id expect the elite visa to be exempt from all this nonsense bureaucratic bs 😉.
Click to expand...

Honestly yes, it would make SENSE to do that IF they apply worlwide taxation :

ELITE : no tax if not remitted
LTR : no tax even if remitted
Retired : no tax for pension, the rest taxed
other visa : worldwide tax

OR just stay maximum 179 days a year in the kindgom.

EDIT : I am just kind of annoyed because I don't know what to do for now. I plan to go back in TH early october till Xmas (i spent for now 106 days in 2024). i will stay under 180days for this year, and keep my NHR portuguese.

My first (and easiest) idea was to buy the ELITE, but if there is not more clarification till october, then no point for now to pay for it (till we dont know what's happen). LTR was also on the table (i fill the conditions) but I have to invest first in Thailand so need to enter with another visa first. And with the actual mood, not sure i want to put 500K+ there if they change rules in 1 year lol.

So maybe if still in the frog, safer/easier to just use the tourist visa multi entry METV for the first 180days and change it when it's more clear, or the new 'dtv' if they will finally release it..

Last edited: Jun 12, 2024