Estonia company profit cash out?

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JohnDones

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Mar 31, 2022
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Hi all,

I have an Estonian company with high 6 figures of retained profit.

Is there a way to cash out without paying the corporate tax? (which is increasing next year).

It's fine distributing some as dividends but I'd prefer not to do it for the whole amount.

I'm not in a rush, so it can take a few years.

Few facts:
  • Non EU passport (East Europe)
  • Single member, consultancy business.
  • Nomad
Open to suggestions.

Thank you
JD
 
JohnDones said:
Hi all,

I have an Estonian company with high 6 figures of retained profit.

Is there a way to cash out without paying the corporate tax? (which is increasing next year).

It's fine distributing some as dividends but I'd prefer not to do it for the whole amount.

I'm not in a rush, so it can take a few years.

Few facts:
  • Non EU passport (East Europe)
  • Single member, consultancy business.
  • Nomad
Open to suggestions.

Thank you
JD
Click to expand...

To cash out without CIT?

There are appropriate and compliant ways to optimize tax. It depends what is your tolerance to tax pain.

For how long the company exist and when was the profit acrued?
 
JohnDones said:
Hi all,

I have an Estonian company with high 6 figures of retained profit.

Is there a way to cash out without paying the corporate tax? (which is increasing next year).

It's fine distributing some as dividends but I'd prefer not to do it for the whole amount.

I'm not in a rush, so it can take a few years.

Few facts:
  • Non EU passport (East Europe)
  • Single member, consultancy business.
  • Nomad
Open to suggestions.

Thank you
JD
Click to expand...

do you have telegram or something ?
 
mraleph said:
To cash out without CIT?

There are appropriate and compliant ways to optimize tax. It depends what is your tolerance to tax pain.

For how long the company exist and when was the profit acrued?
Click to expand...
6 years, most profit accrued 2020-2022.

Yes I'm looking for appropriate ways to optimize.

I'd say 10-ish % is acceptable for me.

Appreciate your thoughts.

daniels27 said:
How about getting a salary each year until the money is gone?
Click to expand...
That's an option. A friend lives in Thailand and takes salary in lump sums whenever he needs it.

Last edited: May 1, 2024
 
Marzio said:
You'll be taxed in Thailand if you remit money in Thailand.
Click to expand...
In his case he's "employed" there and makes 3k/month so that is his living cost. Why would he remit to Thailand unless buying property or something bigger. He can just spend with his foreign card.
 
JohnDones said:
Why would he remit to Thailand unless buying property or something bigger.
Click to expand...

i was asking myself the same question when you said that your friend "takes salary in lump sums"

I thought you meant he was bringing money into Thailand

JohnDones said:
He can just spend with his foreign card.
Click to expand...

BTW this is a form of remittance, it's only more difficult to detect
 
JohnDones said:
6 years, most profit accrued 2020-2022.

Yes I'm looking for appropriate ways to optimize.

I'd say 10-ish % is acceptable for me.

Appreciate your thoughts.


That's an option. A friend lives in Thailand and takes salary in lump sums whenever he needs it.
Click to expand...

Do you have e-residence? Presumably, the legal form is LLC - OU?
 
Take out a reasonable salary every month (not taxed at Estonia level if you aren't an Estonian resident) and live in a country that doesn't tax foreign income and/or has lax tax enforcement.
 
sebastian said:
do you able to explain an example that could work?
Click to expand...
See my first posts all at the top. He is a nomad, he can just invoice the company from "his" house in Hong Kong or pay himself a salary in Hong Kong. As he is mainly in let's say South East Asia and nowhere tax resident, Hong Kong won't tax it and he has it free. Alternatively, he can register in Georgia as self-employed and pay 1% tax even he is not there. Or he goes to Dubai etc. and draws a salary. If the company keeps running, makes 20k profit and he pays 100k salary, he can pull out quite some money.

They main thing is that the salary must be justified. I.e. it must be at a fair market value to the work performed and it must be in relation with the business. Also, the activities which generate the loss should be at least loosely related to the past activities. In all other cases, there is a chance that they won't accept the expenses. About the last one, I am not sure about Estonia, but for most jurisdictions they won't let you offset losses with gains from completely unrelated activities. (You cannot buy a bankrupt construction company with losses of 10M in the last years to and then do crypto trading and do carryforward of the 10M losses to get 10M profit tax free.)

If he was doing crypto something, he could invest in a new sh1t coin, nft or metaverse. He has huge software development costs and travels around the globe to convince investors and look for partners. Unfortunately, the metaverse was a Duke Nukem forever and takes 30 years. After 5 years he invests an additional 100k from his own savings but after 10 years there really is no money left and he closes the company.

If he was doing Amazon sales, he could invest in product development for his own products and have sample expenses etc. for it. This investment will the unfortunately never materialise and generate losses over 8 years until the company is closed at zero balance. It then would be best to keep at least some sales running.
 
daniels27 said:
See my first posts all at the top. He is a nomad, he can just invoice the company from "his" house in Hong Kong or pay himself a salary in Hong Kong. As he is mainly in let's say South East Asia and nowhere tax resident, Hong Kong won't tax it and he has it free. Alternatively, he can register in Georgia as self-employed and pay 1% tax even he is not there. Or he goes to Dubai etc. and draws a salary. If the company keeps running, makes 20k profit and he pays 100k salary, he can pull out quite some money.

They main thing is that the salary must be justified. I.e. it must be at a fair market value to the work performed and it must be in relation with the business. Also, the activities which generate the loss should be at least loosely related to the past activities. In all other cases, there is a chance that they won't accept the expenses. About the last one, I am not sure about Estonia, but for most jurisdictions they won't let you offset losses with gains from completely unrelated activities. (You cannot buy a bankrupt construction company with losses of 10M in the last years to and then do crypto trading and do carryforward of the 10M losses to get 10M profit tax free.)

If he was doing crypto something, he could invest in a new sh1t coin, nft or metaverse. He has huge software development costs and travels around the globe to convince investors and look for partners. Unfortunately, the metaverse was a Duke Nukem forever and takes 30 years. After 5 years he invests an additional 100k from his own savings but after 10 years there really is no money left and he closes the company.

If he was doing Amazon sales, he could invest in product development for his own products and have sample expenses etc. for it. This investment will the unfortunately never materialise and generate losses over 8 years until the company is closed at zero balance. It then would be best to keep at least some sales running.
Click to expand...
Very detailed post, appreciate it.

The company does marketing, nothing fancy.

I read about Georgia SBS 1% and some friends live there. Some say the RS likes to audit these solo-entrepreneurs. Not sure if it even qualifies if it's your own company (which is easy to figure out since Estonia has a public registry). Also a "fair market" salary wouldn't be that high in Georgia, right? (60-70k annual avg)

I was thinking to launch a new SaaS project but then it would take a few years before that gets to profit. It could justify bigger development expenses.

Can a salary be justified if you manage investments? For example you trade/invest in stocks/crypto and take a salary for that? Or it can be a performance bonus.
 
For the salary to be justifiable, it more depends on the Estonian side as they would be the ones questioning whether your business expenses are real. But I would say 150-250k should be possible in general.
 
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