USDC loans

[JohnnyDoe]

Binance has no USDC left for loans and USDT rate is 15% atm.
Are there other places that offer loans with the same conditions as Binance flexible loans?

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[Mercury]

I don't know if the loan conditions are exactly the same as Binance but maybe you can check OKX , Gate.io or Bitget

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Mercury said:
I don't know if the loan conditions are exactly the same as Binance but maybe you can check OKX , Gate.io or Bitget
Click to expand...

OKX offers flexible loans like binance but their rates can go crazy high (50%+).
I cannot find a loan function in the gate.io app
Bitget only offers max 30 days fixed loans

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[Mercury]

Why not borrowing on Nexo?

Once you top up, you can immediately get cash from your credit line by:

• Withdrawing fiat straight to your bank account. You can choose between 30+ currencies.
• Withdrawing USDT or USDC to your Nexo account.

Interest rate depends on Loyalty Tier, which is determined by the ratio between the value of your NEXO Tokens against the rest of your portfolio:

Base: No NEXO Tokens are needed; interest on your outstanding credit line balance is 15.9%.

Silver: The ratio of the NEXO Tokens in your account against the rest of your portfolio must be at least 1%; interest on your outstanding credit line balance is 14.9%.

Gold: The ratio of the NEXO Tokens in your account against the rest of your portfolio must be at least 5%; interest on your outstanding credit line balance is 10.9% if your LTV is above 20% and 2.9% if your LTV is below or equal to 20%.

Platinum: The ratio of the NEXO Tokens in your account against the rest of your portfolio must be at least 10%; interest on your outstanding credit line balance is 7.9% if your LTV is above 20% and 0% if your LTV is below or equal to 20%.

 

[stronco]

What is your collateral?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Mercury said:
Why not borrowing on Nexo?
Click to expand...

Mercury said:
Base: No NEXO Tokens are needed; interest on your outstanding credit line balance is 15.9%.
Click to expand...

Because of the rate. I don't want to buy Nexo tokens. At 15% I can get USDT loans from Binance.

stronco said:
What is your collateral?
Click to expand...

BTC or ETH

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[JohnLocke]

What is the business by taking USDC loans?

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[stronco]

JohnnyDoe said:
Because of the rate. I don't want to buy Nexo tokens. At 15% I can get USDT loans from Binance.



BTC or ETH
Click to expand...

With both of these options you can get loans on chain. AAVE / Coumpound are the gold standard for ETH. Thorchain (for BTC) come to mind. These are time tested, there are dozens of others more exotic (with maybe more attractive attributes) as well.

If you prefer centralized, Sygnum will give you about 6% rate (and can go lower for 7 fig).

 

[JohnnyDoe]

JohnLocke said:
What is the business by taking USDC loans?
Click to expand...

I use them for having fiat without selling crypto

stronco said:
With both of these options you can get loans on chain. AAVE / Coumpound are the gold standard for ETH.
Click to expand...

Utilization rate for both are above optimal, which is worrying in terms of liquidity.

stronco said:
Thorchain (for BTC) come to mind.
Click to expand...

You can't make partial repayments there afaik

stronco said:
If you prefer centralized, Sygnum will give you about 6% rate (and can go lower for 7 fig).
Click to expand...

I want to stay out of the banking system for this.

Last edited: Dec 23, 2023
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[stronco]

>Utilization rate for both are above optimal, which is worrying in terms of liquidity.

Ehhh utli ratio doesn't really matter much. Look at historical rates. You can take 40 million on each USDT and USDC and it will re balance soon (more stables come in). Maybe rates get pushed up for a short time and then come down.


>You can't make partial repayments there afaik

Not sure never used it. Break it down into n-smaller ones?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

stronco said:
>Utilization rate for both are above optimal, which is worrying in terms of liquidity.

Ehhh utli ratio doesn't really matter much. Look at historical rates. You can take 40 million on each USDT and USDC and it will re balance soon (more stables come in). Maybe rates get pushed up for a short time and then come down.
Click to expand...

I will try. If the protocol remains healthy it should work as you say. But remember what happened with Vires?

stronco said:
>You can't make partial repayments there afaik

Not sure never used it. Break it down into n-smaller ones?
Click to expand...

You can actually make partial repayments but you can't take back portions of the collateral.
I don't fully understand how the Thor system works, can you explain it in simple terms?

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[stronco]

JohnnyDoe said:
I don't fully understand how the Thor system works, can you explain it in simple terms?
Click to expand...

Never looked into it deeply, all I can say is that my buddies used it with success.

 

[stronco]

Did you sort this out? What did you end up using?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I can't find anything decent with btc as collateral. I might end up using aave with eth

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[platopk]

JohnnyDoe said:
I can't find anything decent with btc as collateral. I might end up using aave with eth
Click to expand...

Hi, you also have the option of summer.fi
(previously known as oasis) loans albeit it uses wbtc as collateral
for bitcoin (which is not the same as native bitcoin) with aprox 5.5% borrow rate.
With native bitcoin you could use thorchain,
it has no interest rate, but it only allows 33% LTV with a 'novel' mechanism which for my taste it has a luna-esque flavour.
see for example
https://twitter.com/x/status/1710350743285187057
and with some caveats(*)
With eth you could instead use wstETH wrapped lido staked
eth as collateral which compounds at around 3.7% so for example a loan in summer.fi would result in a 1.3% interest. Aave allows to use stETH also as collateral (weird they dont use wstETH instead, as rebase tokens have funny tax implications).

(*) there is another potential issue, as its the only defi protocol
that currently allows switching from ETH land to native Bitcoin and viceversa, by passing KYC, and thus when you reverse the situation you could get 'tainted' btc.

Hope it helps.


Disclaimer:
Of course it is not the same to hold ETH instead of stETH (or wstETH)
albeit at present the market values that risk at 0%.
And wbtc instead of BTC (with a similar 1:1 peg).
IOU pegs work untill they don't

 

[wellington]

JohnnyDoe said:
I can't find anything decent with btc as collateral. I might end up using aave with eth
Click to expand...

You sure?

BTC is at a 14% premium on thorswap with USDC... (liquidity pools).

It's a nice lil earner

JohnnyDoe said:
I can't find anything decent with btc as collateral. I might end up using aave with eth
Click to expand...

You know Aarve froze some funds previously - can't remember the case

 

[platopk]

platopk said:
Hi, you also have the option of summer.fi
(previously known as oasis) loans albeit it uses wbtc as collateral
for bitcoin (which is not the same as native bitcoin) with aprox 5.5% borrow rate.
With native bitcoin you could use thorchain,
it has no interest rate, but it only allows 33% LTV with a 'novel' mechanism which for my taste it has a luna-esque flavour.
see for example
https://twitter.com/x/status/1710350743285187057
and with some caveats(*)
With eth you could instead use wstETH wrapped lido staked
eth as collateral which compounds at around 3.7% so for example a loan in summer.fi would result in a 1.3% interest. Aave allows to use stETH also as collateral (weird they dont use wstETH instead, as rebase tokens have funny tax implications).

(*) there is another potential issue, as its the only defi protocol
that currently allows switching from ETH land to native Bitcoin and viceversa, by passing KYC, and thus when you reverse the situation you could get 'tainted' btc.

Hope it helps.


Disclaimer:
Of course it is not the same to hold ETH instead of stETH (or wstETH)
albeit at present the market values that risk at 0%.
And wbtc instead of BTC (with a similar 1:1 peg).
IOU pegs work untill they don't
Click to expand...

Forgot to add this,
A scheme worth considering is to do the following, for example using Aave Use as collateral 100 wbtc borrowing 80 wbtc at 0.74% net interest (payed in wbtc).
This loan has no risk of liquidation as it does not depend on the state of the market.(caveat it could spike the interest on wbtc loans, but it's very rare, if you notice nobody could produce btc staking programs that pay more than 2% as bitcoin is the hardest asset known)
Now sell the 80 wbtc for stable coin, you just sold 80 bitcoins at market value, but tax wise this is a loan.
The good:
You don't have liquidation risk and very low protocol (wbtc, aave) risk.
Very low interests

The bad:
you really are selling bitcoin so if you are long in the asset you are out of the potential upside. But if you this near the top of the cycle it would be perfect, you just sold but tax wise is a loan, and you could repay the loan around 20 months before next btc halving hopefully at bargain prices.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

wellington said:
You sure?

BTC is at a 14% premium on thorswap with USDC... (liquidity pools).

It's a nice lil earner
Click to expand...

I don't understand Thor's business model, therefore I won't put any money in it.

wellington said:
You know Aarve froze some funds previously - can't remember the case
Click to expand...

I don't know about that, but it's not less safe than Binance.

Rates on Nebeus are good, but they require monthly repayments which is not convenient.

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[stronco]

MIM is also basically auto repaying loans btw.

 

[jesuschrist]

I would advise everyone against using Thorchain, it's basically a safer version of Luna.
It will work great until liquidity disappears from RUNE's buy orderbook.
What they do isn't even loaning, they just sell your collateral to pump their coin, if you want back your collateral they will dump their coin and try to buy back your collateral.

Imagine if BTC does 10x and people want back their collateral, if it happens in the beginning of the bear market they will mint and market dump all the RUNE into empty buy orders, their coin will go near 0.
They say it's safer than Luna because there is a limit cap on the minting, but what if there is a bug and minting won't stop, also this limit doesn't solve the disappearing liquidity problem.

Although long positions on this coin in the bull market and short positions in the bear market is a good idea, but using their chain is not.