Safest Countries that also don't Tax the S**t out of you?

[banafinfodafuggiano]

As per title what are the safest countries to immigrate to, that make immigration not impossible, and also that have either low tax or convenient Tax laws to minimise tax for online businesses?

and at the same time they are safe countries and not third world holes and small tiny islands with literally nothing in there?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Russia

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[Sols]

Safest in what sense? What threats or risks do you face?

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This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[Cloudbanck]

banafinfodafuggiano said:
As per title what are the safest countries to immigrate to, that make immigration not impossible, and also that have either low tax or convenient Tax laws to minimise tax for online businesses?

and at the same time they are safe countries and not third world holes and small tiny islands with literally nothing in there?
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The third world is great for living in with a first world income/money though, so I dont agree with that criteria, but ok, excluding third world and small islands we have:

UAE
Switzerland (not super low taxes, but reasonable, immigration for EU citizens not too difficult)
Qatar (immigration not as easy as UAE but doable)
Panama (Have recently made immigration harder, but far from impossible. Not as safe as the others but acceptable)
Singapore (low but non-zero taxes, immigration is difficult but not impossible)
Monaco (meets all criteria except immigration, and if you have 1M EUR liquid, residency is possible)
Cyprus (island but not tiny, very reasonable taxes, quite safe, easy immigration for EU citizens)

 

[Marshal]

If you want low taxes and low expenses and still want to live in Europe, you should seriously consider Bulgaria. Easy to move to, especially if you are an EU citizen. And trust me you will feel yourself much safer in Sofia than in some big cities in Western Europe.

 

[mok]

Cyprus meets all your requirements

 

[scooterguy]

mok said:
Cyprus meets all your requirements
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He literally said no third world holes and no islands 😛

 

[wellington]

JohnnyDoe said:
Russia
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If this war ends.. definitely Russia is a land of opportunity.

They are staring down the barrel of lack of qualified subjects to take up the reigns as the experienced engineers (60s) enter retirements from gas through to space, through to finance through to tech.

In that sort of environment you will have a place like silicon valley on steroids with investment and growth opportunities.

Just needs 500k immigrants with those skillsets to get the ball going.

As a Brit, i am always surprised Russia isn't more aligned with the UK/EU, It (apart from what a hundred years in wasteland) is more in-line (culturally) with the UK/EU (with its twings) than say the US... IMO.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

wellington said:
If this war ends.. definitely Russia is a land of opportunity.
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I dont think we're that far from it tbh. Western media has started their 'well u know we cannot be helping forever! you guys better start trying to find a solution' chant around two weeks ago.

So the general public starts digesting the next fact; Russia has gotten what they wanted and we are gonna legally hand them Crimea (the other two probably not imo. They'll remain as 'contested')


Ive started researching the Russian market(s) as I want to start diversifying from crypto in the next bull, and theres stuff to be done there.

 

[banafinfodafuggiano]

JohnnyDoe said:
Russia
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How's Russia low Tax? It says income tax is up to 15% (fine), but what about Foreign corporations that are run by the director who's a Russian resident, wouldn't they be claimed also Russian resident companies?

Sols said:
Safest in what sense? What threats or risks do you face?
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I mean, safest from being: Robbed, mugged, killed, kidnapped, raped, scammed, and so on...

I'm originally from Spain/Canada and my countries are pretty safe but very unfriendly to successfull entrepreneurs.

 

[Don]

banafinfodafuggiano said:
I mean, safest from being: Robbed, mugged, killed, kidnapped, raped, scammed, and so on...

I'm originally from Spain/Canada and my countries are pretty safe but very unfriendly to successfull entrepreneurs.
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What about Oman or Qatar?
Both are low tax and superior to Canada in terms of quality of life.

 

[Mercury]

Don said:
What about Oman or Qatar?
Both are low tax and superior to Canada in terms of quality of life.
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It depends on people's definition of "quality of life".

Although I agree tax-wise, I'm really not sure the average westerner would put Oman/Qatar over Canada anytime in term of quality of life for long-term stay.

 

[Don]

Mercury said:
It depends on people's definition of "quality of life".

Although I agree tax-wise, I'm really not sure the average westerner would put Oman/Qatar over Canada anytime in term of quality of life for long-term stay.
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maybe.. I was just assuming that "average westerners" are the ones who put together such lists:
https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp
hap¤#"

 

[Cavaliere]

wellington said:
If this war ends.. definitely Russia is a land of opportunity.

They are staring down the barrel of lack of qualified subjects to take up the reigns as the experienced engineers (60s) enter retirements from gas through to space, through to finance through to tech.

In that sort of environment you will have a place like silicon valley on steroids with investment and growth opportunities.

Just needs 500k immigrants with those skillsets to get the ball going.

As a Brit, i am always surprised Russia isn't more aligned with the UK/EU, It (apart from what a hundred years in wasteland) is more in-line (culturally) with the UK/EU (with its twings) than say the US... IMO.
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Well said. You should not be surprised however, as the current Russian leadership is all about make-belief and fairytales. Really a monarchy would be better for that particular place.

Don said:
What about Oman or Qatar?
Both are low tax and superior to Canada in terms of quality of life.
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Ever heard of temperatures?

banafinfodafuggiano said:
I mean, safest from being: Robbed, mugged, killed, kidnapped, raped, scammed, and so on...
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Then definitely not Russia, to the dismay of people who love the place, yet never lived there or live there now.

Last edited: Dec 7, 2023

 

[Mercury]

Don said:
maybe.. I was just assuming that "average westerners" are the ones who put together such lists:
https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsphap¤#"
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The Quality of Life Index (higher is better) is an estimation of the overall quality of life by using an empirical formula that takes into account the following factors:

Purchasing Power Index (higher is better)
Pollution Index (lower is better)
House Price to Income Ratio (lower is better)
Cost of Living Index (lower is better)
Safety Index (higher is better)
Health Care Index (higher is better)
Traffic Commute Time Index (lower is better)
Climate Index (higher is better)

index.main = Math.max(0, 100 + purchasingPowerInclRentIndex / 2.5 - (housePriceToIncomeRatio * 1.0) - costOfLivingIndex / 10 + safetyIndex / 2.0 + healthIndex / 2.5 - trafficTimeIndex / 2.0 - pollutionIndex * 2.0 / 3.0 + climateIndex / 3.0)


To me, at least one important factor is missing: landscape/nature diversity.

"Quality of Life" perception is very subjective and not 100% rational, I'm not sure it can only be determined by a simple weighed (biased?) formula.

 

[scooterguy]

Quality of life is subjective of course.

To me, the nomadlist list ranking makes much more sense: Nomad List.

Preferences also change with age and objectives. For example, if you want to meet girls, good luck in Oman or Qatar, or even the Netherlands where unless you're super attractive and tall you'll only get garbage (or prostitutes).

If you have a family and make millions off your business and investments, being in Oman can start making more sense.

I personally avoid all of the countries that are at the top of those numbeo lists. IMO if you're not making at least a couple millions a year and don't have a family it doesn't make sense to be in Iceland spending 200k a year for a middle class lifestyle, freezing in the middle of nowhere.

Ironically, Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam are at the bottom of the numbeo lists (but at the top of nomadlist ones), and it's where most people who are location independent flock to.

 

[Don]

scooterguy said:
Quality of life is subjective of course.

To me, the nomadlist list ranking makes much more sense: Nomad List.

Preferences also change with age and objectives. For example, if you want to meet girls, good luck in Oman or Qatar, or even the Netherlands where unless you're super attractive and tall you'll only get garbage (or prostitutes).

If you have a family and make millions off your business and investments, being in Oman can start making more sense.

I personally avoid all of the countries that are at the top of those numbeo lists. IMO if you're not making at least a couple millions a year and don't have a family it doesn't make sense to be in Iceland spending 200k a year for a middle class lifestyle, freezing in the middle of nowhere.

Ironically, Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam are at the bottom of the numbeo lists (but at the top of nomadlist ones), and it's where most people who are location independent flock to.
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I get your point and agree that its subjective.
In general, the list is much different compared to numbeo, but I must note that out of those countries you mentioned my pick would probably be Vietnam and its in the 81st position - I wouldn't call it the top exactly.

Oman and Qatar are indeed not places to meet girls for fornication as you can get lashed as a punishment. Adulterers can even be stoned to death.
Marriages in those countries are, in most cases, arranged. Meeting opposite-sex members can usually happen only in group settings or in the presence of the girl's father. You usually need to marry first and only then do you get to know the person and engage intimately.

In those Gulf countries, it is standard to marry 4 virgins, which they keep on equal rotation, and once a week, mess around with models/prostitutes (google: dubai porta potty). Marriage is only for those who can afford it, so broke single guys are encouraged to focus on work.
Finding a virgin woman for marriage from the Netherlands can be a difficult task indeed. Women lose virginity on average at 18, and the age of consent is 16, so as a rule, you only have a 2-year window of opportunity.

OP-s main objective was low tax and high quality infrastructure. I guess the purpose is finding the best place to grow a business without sacrificing too much comfort.

Last edited: Dec 8, 2023

 

[scooterguy]

Don said:
I get your point and agree that its subjective.
In general, the list is much different compared to numbeo, but I must note that out of those countries you mentioned my pick would probably be Vietnam and its in the 81st position - I wouldn't call it the top exactly.

Oman and Qatar are indeed not places to meet girls for fornication as you can get lashed as a punishment. Adulterers can even be stoned to death.
Marriages in those countries are, in most cases, arranged. Meeting opposite-sex members can usually happen only in group settings or in the presence of the girl's father. You usually need to marry first and only then do you get to know the person and engage intimately.

In those Gulf countries, it is standard to marry 4 virgins, which they keep on equal rotation, and once a week, mess around with models/prostitutes (google: porta potty). Marriage is only for those who can afford it, so broke single guys are encouraged to focus on work.
Finding a virgin woman for marriage from the Netherlands can be a difficult task indeed. Women lose virginity on average at 18, and the age of consent is 16, so as a rule, you only have a 2-year window of opportunity.

OP-s main objective was low tax and high quality infrastructure. I guess the purpose is finding the best place to grow a business without sacrificing too much comfort.
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Loved the "finding a virgin woman for marriage from the Netherlands" part lol xD

But besides the humorous tone of your post, everything you said is absolutely true, and I completely agree.

It's true that Ho Chi Minh is 81st on Nomad List, but if you look closely you'll see that all main 5 bars are green. My guess is that Vietnam is not as popular, so it probably gets "less votes" or something?

Not sure, but one thing I do know is that it's also one of my favorite countries in SEA and I always make sure to spend a few months there every year.

 

[Don]

scooterguy said:
Loved the "finding a virgin woman for marriage from the Netherlands" part lol xD

But besides the humorous tone of your post, everything you said is absolutely true, and I completely agree.

It's true that Ho Chi Minh is 81st on Nomad List, but if you look closely you'll see that all main 5 bars are green. My guess is that Vietnam is not as popular, so it probably gets "less votes" or something?

Not sure, but one thing I do know is that it's also one of my favorite countries in SEA and I always make sure to spend a few months there every year.
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If mostly Cyprus lawyers and UAE CSPs are here, obviously, you hear mostly about those jurisdictions only (a little biased imo, although I like those countries a lot)
People fail to realize that some other jurisdictions and tax structures could be tax-efficient choices, too. Especially those that are not so straightforward.

No one talks about Vietnam, although you could keep your residence there based on having a residence permit and renting a house, retaining freedom of movement while paying just 2% tax.
It should be possible with the following activities:

• Legal consultation, financial consultation, accounting, auditing; tax agent services, customs agent services;
• Data processing services, lease of gateways, IT and telecommunication equipment;
• Office support services and other business support services;
• Sauna, massage, karaoke, dance club, billiards, Internet, gaming services;
• laundering service
• Other services

MLM - Amway, Tupperware businesses are taxed at a higher rate at 5% though, but that's probably for the best.

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Last edited: Dec 8, 2023

 

[scooterguy]

Don said:
If mostly Cyprus lawyers and UAE CSPs are here, obviously, you hear mostly about those jurisdictions only (a little biased imo, although I like those countries a lot)
People fail to realize that some other jurisdictions and tax structures could be tax-efficient choices, too. Especially those that are not so straightforward.

No one talks about Vietnam, although you could keep your residence there based on having a residence permit and renting a house, retaining freedom of movement while paying just 2% tax.
It should be possible with the following activities:

• Legal consultation, financial consultation, accounting, auditing; tax agent services, customs agent services;
• Data processing services, lease of gateways, IT and telecommunication equipment;
• Office support services and other business support services;
• Sauna, massage, karaoke, dance club, billiards, Internet, gaming services;
• laundering service
• Other services

MLM - Amway, Tupperware businesses are taxed at higher at 5% though, but that's probably for the best.
Click to expand...

Yeah but that's just CIT. Personal income taxes are pretty high, and Vietnam taxes worldwide income too.

Also, as usual, it's pretty expensive to set up a company as a foreigner, since you'll have to deal with lawyers that target foreigners and their inflated prices (unless you're fluent in Vietnamese).

It seems much easier to just set up a company in one of the usual suspects (UAE, etc.) and avoiding spending over 6 months in Vietnam. Also, it doesn't help Vietnam that some of its neighbors, like Malaysia or Thailand, don't tax foreign income, so people can take the liberty of going over 6 months in those countries without major consequences.