Is this considered tax evasion?

[Belfort]

Let's say I live in France, and that I'm a french citizen and tax resident. Let's say that I was working for an IT company in France, and was being heavily taxed due to a high salary, so I opened a US LLC and now the french company pays my US LLC, which has a bank account in Belgium. Now from the bank account in Belgium, which is owned by the LLC (my name is not anywhere yet), I want to transfer funds to an EMI where I can then spend them. Now let's say that I send these funds to an EMI outside the EU, so CRS wouldn't apply. Would I be able to use a debit card from that EMI on my daily purchases, effectively living tax free?

 

[latindev]

Yes it is tax evasion and believe me, if you are already doing this they already know... but probably not big enough for them to care yet

 

[Belfort]

latindev said:
Yes it is tax evasion and believe me, if you are already doing this they already know... but probably not big enough for them to care yet
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How would the tax authority in my country know?

Also, out of curiosity, how would someone do this legitimately? If they have a US LLC receiving payments does the government need to know? Or only when transferring funds out, even though it's to a foreign EMI?

 

[JohnLocke]

The debit card is not registered in the company's name alone, it's registered with your name, therefore you will be reported to the French authorities at the year's end if not sooner. The model you think you can create there became obsolete about 7 - 8 years ago, if not longer.

It requires much more than that, you can read about it inside Mentor Group Gold.

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[Belfort]

JohnLocke said:
The debit card is not registered in the company's name alone, it's registered with your name, therefore you will be reported to the French authorities at the year's end if not sooner. The model you think you can create there became obsolete about 7 - 8 years ago, if not longer.

It requires much more than that, you can read about it inside Mentor Group Gold.
Click to expand...

What about buying XMR with the LLC's funds and selling it p2p for cash? That's my last resort but it seems to be the safest way.

I'm trying to find an EMI that's not CRS compliant.

Would you be able to give me some pointers?

 

[Sols]

janet25 said:
Let's say I live in France, and that I'm a french citizen and tax resident. Let's say that I was working for an IT company in France, and was being heavily taxed due to a high salary, so I opened a US LLC and now the french company pays my US LLC, which has a bank account in Belgium. Now from the bank account in Belgium, which is owned by the LLC (my name is not anywhere yet), I want to transfer funds to an EMI where I can then spend them. Now let's say that I send these funds to an EMI outside the EU, so CRS wouldn't apply. Would I be able to use a debit card from that EMI on my daily purchases, effectively living tax free?
Click to expand...

If your LLC has a bank account in Belgium, the bank presumably knows that you are the owner or manager of the company. In that case, the account is reportable under CRS.

If your LLC has a bank account in Belgium and the bank doesn't know that the LLC is yours, you're engaged in a type of fraud. You've turned a simple tax oopsie into a fraud and money laundering case.

janet25 said:
How would the tax authority in my country know?
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The answer to that question shouldn't matter if you're wondering whether a structure is legal or not. In this day and age, assume your adversary knows everything and plan accordingly.

janet25 said:
Also, out of curiosity, how would someone do this legitimately? If they have a US LLC receiving payments does the government need to know? Or only when transferring funds out, even though it's to a foreign EMI?
Click to expand...

By declaring the income and paying tax.

janet25 said:
Would you be able to give me some pointers?
Click to expand...

Face reality. If you don't like French taxes, don't live in France.

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This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[Belfort]

Sols said:
If your LLC has a bank account in Belgium, the bank presumably knows that you are the owner or manager of the company. In that case, the account is reportable under CRS.

If your LLC has a bank account in Belgium and the bank doesn't know that the LLC is yours, you're engaged in a type of fraud. You've turned a simple tax oopsie into a fraud and money laundering case.
Click to expand...

My LLC is anonymous, it doesn't have my name anywhere except in the EIN request form. The bank (wise) has no idea who the LLC belongs to, but they still let me open the account on behalf of the LLC.

 

[Sols]

janet25 said:
My LLC is anonymous, it doesn't have my name anywhere except in the EIN request form. The bank (wise) has no idea who the LLC belongs to, but they still let me open the account on behalf of the LLC.
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If it's your LLC, Wise either knows about you or you're committing fraud (declaring/using another person's identity).

When you opened the business account with Wise, what documents did you provide?

Did you first open a personal account and then open a business account?

If you have a personal account and don't recall declaring anyone else as UBO of the LLC, Wise probably has you on record as UBO by default.

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This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

OP must be Marty McFly from 1985.

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[Marzio]

Or George McFly

 

[Belfort]

I don't know, guys. For the amount it is (<100k per year) I don't see how they can detect me. The non-CRS-reporting EMI wouldn't report me to France.

This is the flow of the money in my view:
My employer (french bank account) -> My US LLC (belgian bank account) -> non-CRS-reporting EMI -> daily purchases using a debit card

 

[Clank]

janet25 said:
I don't know, guys. For the amount it is (<100k p) I don't see how they can detect me. The non-CRS-reporting EMI wouldn't report me to France.

This is the flow of the money in my view:
My employer -> My US LLC -> non-CRS-reporting EMI -> daily purchases using a debit card
Click to expand...

The bank account for your company in Belgium is reported via CRS.

 

[Belfort]

Sols said:
When you opened the business account with Wise, what documents did you provide?
Click to expand...

Just the EIN and address of my US LLC.

Did you first open a personal account and then open a business account?
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No, just the business account.

Jbb1 said:
The bank account for your company in Belgium is reported via CRS.
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And France sees a US LLC owning it, not me.

 

[avalanche]

janet25 said:
I don't know, guys. For the amount it is (<100k per year) I don't see how they can detect me. The non-CRS-reporting EMI wouldn't report me to France.

This is the flow of the money in my view:
My employer (french bank account) -> My US LLC (belgian bank account) -> non-CRS-reporting EMI -> daily purchases using a debit card
Click to expand...

It feels that you're just waiting for encouragement from the forum members instead of real insights on what's going to happen

 

[Belfort]

avalanche said:
It feels that you're just waiting for encouragement from the forum members instead of real insights on what's going to happen
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Not really. I want to know how a CRS report of the US LLC would be connected to me.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

janet25 said:
Not really. I want to know how a CRS report of the US LLC would be connected to me.
Click to expand...

By your name and surname.

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[Belfort]

JohnnyDoe said:
By your name and surname.
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Wyoming incorporated LLCs are anonymous.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

janet25 said:
Wyoming incorporated LLCs are anonymous.
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You should better try to understand what has already been explained above.
Otherwise come back in 2-5 years with a new thread titled “looking for a good French criminal and tax lawyer”

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[Belfort]

JohnnyDoe said:
You should better try to understand what has already been explained above.
Otherwise come back in 2-5 years with a new thread titled “looking for a good French criminal and tax lawyer”
Click to expand...

Unless the french government sees the transactions from my employer to my US LLC and ask the US to provide details on who's the owner of that company, I don't see how I'd be caught. And I highly doubt they would go to this extent for the amounts I'm dealing with.

 

[Sols]

This is going nowhere.

Yes, this is tax evasion.

Yes, you might be able to get away with it.

Yes, you're looking at significant penalties if/when the French government catches you. Prison time is rare but not unheard of. It'll hurt financially for years, though.

If you're asking for tips on how to evade taxes, this isn't the right place.

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This is the probably the answer to your question.