Will my plan work to avoid taxes for the next 15 years?

[EliasIT]

Some of you must be wondering about my recently created threads. First Switzerland, then England and Portugal and then this thread.

My plan is to use services like Celver to create a real address in e.g. South America, here I receive mail and all that and here I want to say I have moved to. It has worked before so that part is clear enough for me.Now my plan is to buy a house in Portugal, England, Switzerland and possibly in Dubai. First rent, to see if the places I find are worth living and then buy.

The purchases will take place through my realestate Schweizer AG.Do you think I can avoid taxes for the next 15 years this way?

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

If you live in Dubai you don't need to pretend to reside elsewhere.
If you hold a EU passport, the strategy should work well in Portugal, not in CH or UK.
Sending kids to school complicates things, but you might be able to build a credible story if you maintain a low profile and choose a private school.

Toggle signature

@JohnnyDoe ”“ Your #1 Source for Guidance in Different Offshore Fields​

 

[Sols]

Let's go back 15 years in time. It's 2008. Radios are blasting Low by Flo Rida and T-Pain and The Dark Knight is released. Bitcoin came out in 2009. Think of how much has changed just in your own life since then. Then let's quickly run through what's happened in those 15 years: we've seen the emergence of such major developments as FATCA, AEOI/CRS, BEPS, DAC6, new EU AML Directives, and so on. Like it or not but EU, US, OECD, FATF, and their friends set the tone for what happens across the world. Even if power shifts to BRICS or whatever your preferred new world order is, their motivations are the same: tax revenues and control.

So if we look at the next 15 years, expect privacy to erode further. Plan for a future where your every movement is tracked and knowable at the press of a button by a tax authority. The barriers between taxation and immigration are coming undone.

If the immigration system in UK detects you haven't left the country after X days, the HMRC might determine you're tax resident.

We'll also see automation around CRS start taking off. There are already talks about central bank account registries, which could potentially remove the need even for CRS. A tax authority could just search your name in a database and find all bank accounts you have with all banks all over the world.

If your plan for the next 15 years include anything that doesn't pass close inspection, I wouldn't expect it to work. Maybe it will. Maybe it won't.

15 years from now, UAE probably has 10-15% tax on personal and corporate income. They'll do it in small increments so people barely notice it.

Portugal has already scrapped part of its tax program. Will what's left still be around in 15 years? A new generation of voters is coming in that's seen their neighborhoods gentrified by wealthy foreigners. Locals can't afford to live in certain areas anymore. Will they vote to push the political landscape towards removing programs that are meant to attract such wealthy foreigners?

Switzerland already considers you tax resident based on what you think. You can become tax resident simply by going to Switzerland with the intention of staying there.

15 years is a long time. Looking forward to reading this thread in 2038.

Toggle signature
This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[EliasIT]

Well yeah, thank you both for your nice and most interesting information. I agree, it is difficult to predict the future 15 years ahead.

I'm also ware of that much has changed and will change in regards to total control for the tax authorities worldwide. It's how the world order will be and it is where it is pointing to. Anyway, I believe that money will always win, there are so wealthy people in this world, so illegal money that there will always be interest in moving money anonymously and avoid taxes.

I have focus on Portugal as well as you can see above and from my other threads. It's 5% income tax makes it appealing and so far my research too. That said, I thought that the UK had this program for foreigners moving (holding an EU passport) to the UK doing business abroad say with a Swiss or other offshore company, where income is tax free the first 15 years. Has this stopped or did I missed something?

If Portugal is increasing their tax from 5% to 10 or even 15% over the next 15 years I could also work with it, that would not harm me in any way.

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[Sols]

EliasIT said:
It's 5% income tax makes it appealing and so far my research too. That said, I thought that the UK had this program for foreigners moving (holding an EU passport) to the UK doing business abroad say with a Swiss or other offshore company, where income is tax free the first 15 years. Has this stopped or did I missed something?
Click to expand...

UK non-domicile program is still around. It's available for people who are tax resident in UK but have their permanent home somewhere else. You have to apply for the status; it is not automatic. There is a minimum tax payable per year, starting at 30,000 GBP per year after seven years and goes up to 60,000 GBP after another few more years. After 15 years, you are no longer considered non-domicile and must pay full tax on your worldwide income.

Toggle signature
This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[EliasIT]

So it is not like I thought, you relocate to the UK from Switzerland, and enjoy 15 years tax freedom because business is conducted in my Swiss company or other offshore company?

So it makes UK less interesting I believe.

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[Sols]

EliasIT said:
So it is not like I thought, you relocate to the UK from Switzerland, and enjoy 15 years tax freedom because business is conducted in my Swiss company or other offshore company?
Click to expand...

Not exactly, no. IIRC, there is no lump sum payable the first seven years. But years 8 through 10, it's 30,000 GBP then years 11 through 14 it's 60,000 GBP.

So it might work for seven years, but then you have to decide whether UK is worth paying 30,000 GBP/year for or if it's time to find another place to live.

Toggle signature
This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[EliasIT]

Sols said:
So it might work for seven years, but then you have to decide whether UK is worth paying 30,000 GBP/year for or if it's time to find another place to live.
Click to expand...

okay, that is something to think about.

JohnnyDoe said:
but you might be able to build a credible story if you maintain a low profile and choose a private school.
Click to expand...

How would you accomplish this in some details? Why would you consider a private school to be more "anonynous" in privacy matters then a public school?

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

EliasIT said:
How would you accomplish this in some details?
Click to expand...

You should pretend not to live there full time, and remain under the radar. If you hold a EU passport there will be no need for a visa. Keep the utilities in your landlord's name. Don't open a local bank account. Drive a car with a foreign plate. Build a solid story in your official place of residence, with utility bills in your name, expenses etc. (for example, give your credit card to a local to pay for groceries etc).

EliasIT said:
Why would you consider a private school to be more "anonynous" in privacy matters then a public school?
Click to expand...

Kids there are more likely to keep their mouth shut about the foreigner in the class, especially in the international school. You might be able to agree on payment terms with the school, for example for the bills to be issued to your foreign company.
However, your kid is going to be the weakest element in the plan. Perhaps you could consider a full boarding school abroad.

Toggle signature

@JohnnyDoe ”“ Your #1 Source for Guidance in Different Offshore Fields​

 

[EliasIT]

Sols said:
UK non-domicile program is still around. It's available for people who are tax resident in UK but have their permanent home somewhere else.
Click to expand...

What i read and saw on television was that as long as you have a company non resident but live in the UK it would be these rules. Not that you need to have a permanent home for instant in Switzerland, or any other EU country.

How would you solve the issue with the permanent home if that isn't the truth? or if it isn't sufficient (or not allowed any longer) just to have a offshore company somewhere outside of the UK ?

JohnnyDoe said:
open a local bank account. Drive a car with a foreign plate.
Click to expand...

Could that be a car registered in Germany that you drive while you stay in Portugal, I assume that would not be allowed over a 7 years period or 15 years period or what do you think?

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

EliasIT said:
Could that be a car registered in Germany that you drive while you stay in Portugal, I assume that would not be allowed over a 7 years period or 15 years period or what do you think?
Click to expand...

You are supposed to register the car in Portugal, but if you park it inside a resort, it is not too flashy, and you don't take too many fines, you can always pretend to be there just on a brief vacation.

Toggle signature

@JohnnyDoe ”“ Your #1 Source for Guidance in Different Offshore Fields​

 

[EliasIT]

You think that would be possible over such a long period? I mean I will switch the car's in 3 years or maybe 5 to new ones but it is a long time. They may note if they stop you a few times that you keep driving there.

I have done this for 6 months in Switzerland but consider to change that if I stay here.

Are cars more expensive in Portugal compared to Germany?

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

EliasIT said:
You think that would be possible over such a long period?
Click to expand...

I know people who have been doing this for 10+ years

EliasIT said:
I mean I will switch the car's in 3 years or maybe 5 to new ones but it is a long time. They may note if they stop you a few times that you keep driving there.
Click to expand...

If you remain under the speed limits it is very unlikely that they stop you.

EliasIT said:
I have done this for 6 months in Switzerland but consider to change that if I stay here.
Click to expand...

Portugal is not Switzerland.

EliasIT said:
Are cars more expensive in Portugal compared to Germany?
Click to expand...

Way more expensive.

Toggle signature

@JohnnyDoe ”“ Your #1 Source for Guidance in Different Offshore Fields​

 

[Sols]

EliasIT said:
What i read and saw on television was that as long as you have a company non resident but live in the UK it would be these rules. Not that you need to have a permanent home for instant in Switzerland, or any other EU country.

How would you solve the issue with the permanent home if that isn't the truth? or if it isn't sufficient (or not allowed any longer) just to have a offshore company somewhere outside of the UK ?
Click to expand...

Domicile is a vague concept. You can see what HMRC writes here: Tax on foreign income

UK residents who have their permanent home (”˜domicile') outside the UK may not have to pay UK tax on foreign income.
Click to expand...

Toggle signature
This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[EliasIT]

I spoke with a tax advisor in the UK and told him I'm renting a home in Switzerland at the moment which I would like to claim as my permanent resident. The answer is:

I have received a response from my tax colleagues regarding your question a) & b) below. Unfortunately, it is not the case that you pay zero tax on UK earnings for 7 years. However, there is possible relief in relation to non-UK income which we can advise on should you require.
Click to expand...

What do you think of the answer and what do they mean with relief?

All my income will come from the company in Switzerland and I would not setup a company in the UK unless it would have any tax benefit.

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[Sols]

EliasIT said:
What do you think of the answer and what do they mean with relief?
Click to expand...

The non-domicile exemption is for foreign income. You are basically taxed on a remittance basis. Income from within UK counts as remitted to UK, even if you have it paid out to a foreign bank account.

EliasIT said:
All my income will come from the company in Switzerland and I would not setup a company in the UK unless it would have any tax benefit.
Click to expand...

I think the tax adviser misunderstood you. Provided the Swiss company does not become tax resident in UK, you should be able to have income from the Swiss company deemed non-remitted income provided you don't move money to the UK.

Toggle signature
This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[EliasIT]

But I will move money to the UK on a monthly basis to pay my bills in the UK if I relocate there ?

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[Sols]

EliasIT said:
But I will move money to the UK on a monthly basis to pay my bills in the UK if I relocate there ?
Click to expand...

Then you pay UK tax on that money.

Toggle signature
This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[jafo]

EliasIT said:
Some of you must be wondering about my recently created threads. First Switzerland, then England and Portugal and then this thread.

My plan is to use services like Celver to create a real address in e.g. South America, here I receive mail and all that and here I want to say I have moved to. It has worked before so that part is clear enough for me.Now my plan is to buy a house in Portugal, England, Switzerland and possibly in Dubai. First rent, to see if the places I find are worth living and then buy.

The purchases will take place through my realestate Schweizer AG.Do you think I can avoid taxes for the next 15 years this way?
Click to expand...

Why not just move to Monaco?

Hear me out with the following analogy:
There are three (3) gang-infested areas where they burglarize homes and take anywhere from 5% to 50% of your belongings.
Why would I want to purchase a home in these areas and subject myself to being burglarized or even kidnapped and held for ransom?

Wouldn't it be safer to just move to a neighborhood where there are no burglaries?
🙄

 

[EliasIT]

Sols said:
Then you pay UK tax on that money.
Click to expand...

Do you have an idea with 90K £ what tax rate we are looking at and or how much tax to pay - just a qualified guess??

jafo said:
Why not just move to Monaco?
Click to expand...

I don't have the money to go to Monaco, you can see my net profits, I'm not a millionaire! Or do you know something I don't know???

jafo said:
Wouldn't it be safer to just move to a neighborhood where there are no burglaries?
Click to expand...

Sure, where do you suggest?

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.