Swiss bank account that a Canadian could open remotely

[WorldCitizen99]

Could go in person if it would help.
Also looking for the ability to invest in bonds or stocks from it...so either a brokerage account or traditional bank account with an associated self-directed brokerage service
Would be willing to park 100-200K in it

I inquired a Swissquote - Cdns not eligible
Dukascopy - I'm not interested

 

[CyprusLawyer101]

I can help. I Work with a few private banks in Swtzerland, however your intended parking amount is at low end and may be rejected, although still doable.

Last edited: Feb 12, 2023

 

[Sols]

Check CIM Bank and Flow Bank.

Most Swiss banks require at least 500,000 CHF or equivalent. Lower might be possible, if the bank sees enough value (i.e. revenue) in the relationship. A good introducer could help with that.

Toggle signature
This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[backpacker]

WorldCitizen99 said:
Could go in person if it would help.
Also looking for the ability to invest in bonds or stocks from it...so either a brokerage account or traditional bank account with an associated self-directed brokerage service
Would be willing to park 100-200K in it

I inquired a Swissquote - Cdns not eligible
Dukascopy - I'm not interested
Click to expand...

Opening an account with a private bank for the mentioned amount does not make sense at all: You will have zero negotiating power and have to pay standard fees (= the crazy commission they publish in their official fee schedule).
Even Swiss resident citizens struggle with these crazy fee structures. That's why most locals are usually with Postfinance or a Kantonalbank.

Swiss banks are good when you come with MM, not with K.

 

[WorldCitizen99]

backpacker said:
Opening an account with a private bank for the mentioned amount does not make sense at all: You will have zero negotiating power and have to pay standard fees (= the crazy commission they publish in their official fee schedule).
Even Swiss resident citizens struggle with these crazy fee structures. That's why most locals are usually with Postfinance or a Kantonalbank.

Swiss banks are good when you come with MM, not with K.
Click to expand...

It doesn't need to be private. It's more for jurisdictional and currency diversification. Does that open up more possibilities for me?

 

[Sols]

Retail banking for non-residents is really not done in Switzerland, except for the odd little CIM Bank which caters almost exclusively to non-residents with retail banking.

The only exceptions I've come across have been people who live in a neighboring country and cross into Switzerland for work every day and former residents who have maintained good relations with the bank.

Most Swiss people bank with UBS and Credit Suisse. IIRC, those two banks control 50% of the local market. Retail banking fees with them, as well as Postfinance and most cantonal banks, are reasonable and come with no minimum requirements. But they won't open such accounts for you as a non-resident, unless you also deposit 500,000 CHF minimum. Lately the minimums have increased to one or more million CHF.

Toggle signature
This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[JackAlabama]

WorldCitizen99 said:
Could go in person if it would help.
Also looking for the ability to invest in bonds or stocks from it...so either a brokerage account or traditional bank account with an associated self-directed brokerage service
Would be willing to park 100-200K in it

I inquired a Swissquote - Cdns not eligible
Dukascopy - I'm not interested
Click to expand...

You are best to add 1 zero to your intended parking sum for it to happen.

 

[WorldCitizen99]

Sols said:
Retail banking for non-residents is really not done in Switzerland, except for the odd little CIM Bank which caters almost exclusively to non-residents with retail banking.

The only exceptions I've come across have been people who live in a neighboring country and cross into Switzerland for work every day and former residents who have maintained good relations with the bank.

Most Swiss people bank with UBS and Credit Suisse. IIRC, those two banks control 50% of the local market. Retail banking fees with them, as well as Postfinance and most cantonal banks, are reasonable and come with no minimum requirements. But they won't open such accounts for you as a non-resident, unless you also deposit 500,000 CHF minimum. Lately the minimums have increased to one or more million CHF.
Click to expand...

Excellent answer - thank you!

CyprusLawyer101 said:
I can help. I Work with a few private banks in Swtzerland, however your intended parking amount is at low end and may be rejected, although still doable.
Click to expand...

Do private banks tend to have self-directed brokerage acccounts or do you have to use their investment advisor (which I'm sure shaves off a fair amount of your returns)?

 

[Clank]

Why not Dukascopy? It's a good option for your amount of money.

 

[backpacker]

Sols said:
Most Swiss people bank with UBS and Credit Suisse
Click to expand...

That's debatable ->
https://hub.hslu.ch/retailbanking/welche-schweizer-haben-bei-welcher-bank-ihre-hauptbankbeziehung/

WorldCitizen99 said:
Do private banks tend to have self-directed brokerage acccounts or do you have to use their investment advisor (which I'm sure shaves off a fair amount of your returns)?
Click to expand...

Read this -> Why people paying fee for custody or wealth management , when you can buy low fee index fund etf by yourself ?

Last edited: Feb 13, 2023

 

[JackAlabama]

WorldCitizen99 said:
Excellent answer - thank you!


Do private banks tend to have self-directed brokerage acccounts or do you have to use their investment advisor (which I'm sure shaves off a fair amount of your returns)?
Click to expand...

You need to make them money. So be prepared to pay for custody fee a few bps and also for managing and by buying their "great" investment products they offer you.

Especially if the amount is "low" (200k is not really low if you need to save it up for the vast majority after 50% tax) but in the sphere of banking it is a very low amount with which you have 0 bargaining power.

 

[WorldCitizen99]

Jbb1 said:
Why not Dukascopy? It's a good option for your amount of money.
Click to expand...

IIRC it was max 50K. I wanted it concentrated in one bank - less to keep track of

JackAlabama said:
You need to make them money. So be prepared to pay for custody fee a few bps and also for managing and by buying their "great" investment products they offer you.

Especially if the amount is "low" (200k is not really low if you need to save it up for the vast majority after 50% tax) but in the sphere of banking it is a very low amount with which you have 0 bargaining power.
Click to expand...

I have a nest egg with some capital so if one jurisdiction needed it to be closer to 500K I could consider it as long as I could invest it. I'm still trying to work on the investment side of my plan and figure out how to navigate withholding taxes, how much I need for cash flow (dividends, bonds) and how much would be better in stocks I could later sell for cap gains....all of these things are factors and beyond the scope of this thread but that's what's going thru my head.

My strategy was to pick 2 or 3 solid jurisdictions that I'm not a citizen or resident of (e.g. SIngapore, Switzerland, US, Channel Islands) - a la 5 flags strategy.
I wanted to balance risk of bail-ins, frozen accts vs costs/issues associated with having too many accounts

backpacker said:
That's debatable ->
https://hub.hslu.ch/retailbanking/welche-schweizer-haben-bei-welcher-bank-ihre-hauptbankbeziehung/

Read this -> Why people paying fee for custody or wealth management , when you can buy low fee index fund etf by yourself ?
Click to expand...

OK I read your post...
Do Swiss private banks have access to bond markets with yields that are worth investing in? US 6,12 months are paying close to 5% which would probably be OK but European markets pay max 3.5% (excluding Balkans, EE). UK is up to 4% so that's an option but GBP was a bit scary earlier this year.

There seems to be a divide between N.A. and Europe for many things -e.g. getting professional credentials from outside the EU recognized inside the EU so I wonder if it works that way for what is offered by banks in terms of investments.

Last edited: Feb 13, 2023

 

[JackAlabama]

WorldCitizen99 said:
IIRC it was max 50K. I wanted it concentrated in one bank - less to keep track of

I have a nest egg with some capital so if one jurisdiction needed it to be closer to 500K I could consider it as long as I could invest it. I'm still trying to work on the investment side of my plan and figure out how to navigate withholding taxes, how much I need for cash flow (dividends, bonds) and how much would be better in stocks I could later sell for cap gains....all of these things are factors and beyond the scope of this thread but that's what's going thru my head.

My strategy was to pick 2 or 3 solid jurisdictions that I'm not a citizen or resident of (e.g. SIngapore, Switzerland, US, Channel Islands) - a la 5 flags strategy.
I wanted to balance risk of bail-ins, frozen accts vs costs/issues associated with having too many accounts


OK I read your post...
Do Swiss private banks have access to bond markets with yields that are worth investing in? US 6,12 months are paying close to 5% which would probably be OK but European markets pay max 3.5% (excluding Balkans, EE). UK is up to 4% so that's an option but GBP was a bit scary earlier this year.

There seems to be a divide between N.A. and Europe for many things -e.g. getting professional credentials from outside the EU recognized inside the EU so I wonder if it works that way for what is offered by banks in terms of investments.
Click to expand...

non-resident banking becomes very difficult as time goes by. The propagated old 5flags strategy is slowly coming to an end unless you are willing to commit 7digits and more.

 

[CyprusLawyer101]

WorldCitizen99 said:
Do private banks tend to have self-directed brokerage acccounts or do you have to use their investment advisor (which I'm sure shaves off a fair amount of your returns)?
Click to expand...

Its not necessary to use their onw internal advisor. You can apply your own external asset management strategy.

 

[backpacker]

WorldCitizen99 said:
Do Swiss private banks have access to bond markets with yields that are worth investing in?
Click to expand...

OTC bond trading is one of their main activities, aside from offering fiduciary deposits. You can buy bonds from almost every issuer, if not sanctioned. However, do take note that in today's world a minimum investment per bond applies.

In post #10 you can find a link to another thread where this entire topic has been discussed ad absurdum.

Last edited: Feb 13, 2023

 

[WorldCitizen99]

JackAlabama said:
non-resident banking becomes very difficult as time goes by. The propagated old 5flags strategy is slowly coming to an end unless you are willing to commit 7digits and more.
Click to expand...

Sounds like making an in-person visit doesn't make much of a difference
I'll check out CIM and Flow as Sols suggested

backpacker said:
OTC bond trading is one of their main activities, aside from offering fiduciary deposits. You can buy bonds from almost every issuer, if not sanctioned. However, do take note that in today's world a minimum investment per bond applies.

In post #10 you can find a link to another thread where this entire topic has been discussed ad absurdum.
Click to expand...

OK many thanks for that info!

 

[GPT]

JackAlabama said:
non-resident banking becomes very difficult as time goes by. The propagated old 5flags strategy is slowly coming to an end unless you are willing to commit 7digits and more.
Click to expand...

Especially the liquid part of the 5 flags has come to an end.
There are ways around it, just not for <1M.

 

[JimBeam]

CIM can do everything remotely.

But why go with Swiss bank/broker if you're Canadian?
(Everything will be A LOT more expensive!!!)

Do you live in Canada?

 

[WorldCitizen99]

JimBeam said:
CIM can do everything remotely.

But why go with Swiss bank/broker if you're Canadian?
(Everything will be A LOT more expensive!!!)

Do you live in Canada?
Click to expand...

Well I'm a Canadian/UK dual citizen. I'm considering changing my tax residency from Canadian to another country either this year or next. After what happened in Canada with the freezing of bank accounts and the overall mess with our government I wanted to diversify jurisdictions. I already have Isle of Man but I'm not too happy with it. I wanted to get Swiss or Singapore. SIngapore is far to travel to but I might want to visit Malaysia in a few months anyway.

I have been spending 90% of the year outside of Canada for the last 3 yrs

Why more expensive as Canadian?

 

[JimBeam]

Swiss banks usually have higher fees.
https://www.cimbanque.com/en/private-banking/fees/