Cashing out XMR and investing into ETFs

Jerry1911

Jerry1911

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Oct 5, 2019
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I'm DCAing a farily decent amount of money into Monero right now and basically "betting" on it going above $1000 in the next 2-3 years. I'm also buying a ton of Beam.

At some point I'm gonna want to cash out these holdings and throw the money into ETFs in order to get some passive income and reinvest it all as much as possible.

I'm well aware that KYC rules are changing fast and that they'll most likely be much different in 3 years.

However, in your opinion - RIGHT NOW - what would be the easiest way to cash out XMR into fiat and invest it in funds/stocks/etc.? Just so I approximately know what kind of shitstorm awaits me smi(&%

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First I'll have to find a bank that's OK with Monero as source of funds. Lets assume Bank Frick would be fine with it unless by that time specific legislation regarding privacy coins gets implemented (i.e. that it's treated as cash and subject to the same rules as cash -- which is definitely possible IMHO).

Then I'll have to find a broker that fullfillls the same "requirement". Correct? So, which brokers TODAY would fine with Monero as the sole source of funds, if the amount is, let's say, between 500k and 1M EUR?

Or are there other, better ways to do it? (I know one other way which would cost me approx. 15% aka corporate tax + PIT in my country, but I won't mention it here at this time).

Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
 
The main problem you will face is reporting. Every Broker will report your finances. So it does not really matter whether you're paying with XMR, BTC, cash, gold bars or goats. The result will always be the same. If reporting and the SoF are a non-issue for you, simply convert the XMR to fiat and invest the traditional way. If the reporting/SoF is a problem for you, there will be extra steps required to spare you from potential trouble.

Keep in mind that those extra step will also cost you time and money. Also you can spare yourself the PIT if you keep the money within your company and use the company to invest the money.

Also, betting on Monero to reach 1000 USD within the next 2-3, that will absolutely not happen. And Beam is a dead coin.
 
FunnyUsername said:
FunnyUsername said:
The main problem you will face is reporting. Every Broker will report your finances.
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That's not a problem for me. My home country doesn't charge any capital gains taxes if the crypto has been held for at least 2 years. It's the source of funds that I'm worried about. It's clean and bought with salary only (I'll be able to provide salary slips if needed), but still, some brokers such as IBKR apparently don't like crypto being the only SoF.

FunnyUsername said:
FunnyUsername said:
Also, betting on Monero to reach 1000 USD within the next 2-3, that will absolutely not happen.
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Why not? I'd also be curious to know which coins are you buying/holding.
 
Jerry1911 said:
Jerry1911 said:
That's not a problem for me. My home country doesn't charge any capital gains taxes if the crypto has been held for at least 2 years. It's the source of funds that I'm worried about. It's clean and bought with salary only (I'll be able to provide salary slips if needed), but still, some brokers such as IBKR apparently don't like crypto being the only SoF.
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The SoF in your case is not crypto. The SoF is the DCAing. You can basically proof that the Monero you hold were legally bought. For example if you buy USD 1,000 worth of Monero once your paycheck hits every month you'll have a good paper trail to explain where your Monero comes from.

And to think the price of Monero will not only double it's all-time-high within the next 3 years but also actually grow by ~700% from it's current price within this timeframe is rather optimistic. That's not a bet, it's a gamble. Sometimes you hit the jackpot with such a gamble but in most cases you'll burn your money. We're heading into a global recession and crypto is a very speculative high risk market. That does not mix well.

Personally most of my crypto by now is simply into (multiple) stablecoins. I'm financially secured. No need to gamble any further.
 
JohnnyDoe said:
JohnnyDoe said:
you are not holding crypto but some rubbish centralized digital replica of fiat, which is riskier than fiat itself and only good for very short term liquidity purposes.
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Let's see. Since I've converted everything to stablecoins my net worth stayed about the same. Instead of dropping about 60%-70% within a few months. On top of that as most stablecoins are pegged to the USD I pretty much doged the inflation in europe simply because the loss of value of the Euro. Also stablecoins are easy to convert into classic crypto like ETH in a matter of seconds to minutes. Even if for some reason the stablecoins start to depeg and you sell them for a 10-20% loss you'd still outperform Bitcoin.

You're partially right that stablecoins are still risiker than fiat, yet there are some key advantages. Send practially any amount of money into any country on this planet while having a fixed value. Of course you can do the same with Bitcoin (it's pretty much it's original purpose) but in this case you're exposed to it's volatility. Also stablecoins are easier to hide than cold hard cash.

In an event where a major stablecoin like Tether or USDC goes bust, the entire market will be in big trouble. Additionally, not all stablecoins are centralized. Take DAI for example, as far as I am aware they still have a stack of USDC as collateral but they're in the progress of getting rid of it.
 
FunnyUsername said:
FunnyUsername said:
Let's see. Since I've converted everything to stablecoins my net worth stayed about the same. Instead of dropping about 60%-70% within a few months. On top of that as most stablecoins are pegged to the USD I pretty much doged the inflation in europe simply because the loss of value of the Euro. Also stablecoins are easy to convert into classic crypto like ETH in a matter of seconds to minutes. Even if for some reason the stablecoins start to depeg and you sell them for a 10-20% loss you'd still outperform Bitcoin.

You're partially right that stablecoins are still risiker than fiat, yet there are some key advantages. Send practially any amount of money into any country on this planet while having a fixed value. Of course you can do the same with Bitcoin (it's pretty much it's original purpose) but in this case you're exposed to it's volatility. Also stablecoins are easier to hide than cold hard cash.

In an event where a major stablecoin like Tether or USDC goes bust, the entire market will be in big trouble. Additionally, not all stablecoins are centralized. Take DAI for example, as far as I am aware they still have a stack of USDC as collateral but they're in the progress of getting rid of it.
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So you have faith in fiat, think it is better than crypto, and therefore you buy fiat through crypto ns2

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Jerry1911 said:
Jerry1911 said:
Ok but what are your future plans?
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I made enough gains. Now it's time for reaching long term financially stability. So, getting most out of crypto and invest it into traditional markets. If you're still planning to make big gains in crypto there are multiple options. Personally I don't think we're even near the bottom right now. I'd bascially wait for the next crash and try to dump as much money into the market as possible - and then wait. If you're investing right now I think there's a huge chance where you'll need to sit through a major crash. And most people are not made for such events and will liquidate their assets to minimize their loss.

Chances are good that the crypto market will also face a new bull run, probably once the global market will recover and stablize. Once this happens there will be new hype products within the crypto market itself. Back then it started with ICOs, then later Memecoins and finally NFTs. Honestly, all of that is easy money if you're in early. Well adjusted frontrunning bots or sniping coin launches was easy money. Main problem about such things is that most people don't have a deep enough understanding of the technical aspect of things and simply burn their money.

JohnnyDoe said:
JohnnyDoe said:
So you have faith in fiat, think it is better than crypto, and therefore you buy fiat through crypto ns2
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For now I don't have faith in neither of them. But fiat offers more options to add some diversity. And after all I only hold stablecoins because I am practically forced to do so. I'd prefer to have it sitting in my banking account, which currently is not an (easy) option and something I am working on.
 
FunnyUsername said:
FunnyUsername said:
Personally I don't think we're even near the bottom right now.
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I wouldn't put it like that but I do think it's possible BTC dips to 10-15k USD in the short term.

FunnyUsername said:
FunnyUsername said:
If you're investing right now I think there's a huge chance where you'll need to sit through a major crash.
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I'm aware that there's a possibility and I'm fine with that; I'm not going to sell my holdings.

FunnyUsername said:
FunnyUsername said:
Once this happens there will be new hype products within the crypto market itself.
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Do you think that privacy coins will always be a niche or that there's a chance they get some 'hype' too?

Thank you for your input btw.
 
Jerry1911 said:
Jerry1911 said:
Do you think that privacy coins will always be a niche or that there's a chance they get some 'hype' too?

Thank you for your input btw.
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Hard to tell. In theory there's huge potential. In an interconnected world where every aspect of our lives is tracked more every single day people will start to flock for solutions to keep their last bit of privacy alive. Monero does a great job so far as a little "tool" to disconnect you from this world of tracking and I am certain that people will start to value this kind of privacy even more in the future. But that only works as long as privacy related coins are not made illegal. And that's a scenario which I don't find too unrealistic. While that does not stop such coins from existing, as they're decentralized after all, it makes them hard to trade and exchange which again would reduce their value.

So, in my opinion Monero has great potential but I feel that it might be killed by its own success.
 
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