More banks will cut off Russian payment system Mir - senior official

[Martin Everson]

The very reason why countries should de-dollarize their financial systems asap. Once your banks have USD correspondence accounts in New York your financial system is no longer independent or under your control. You become subject to US extra-territorial sanctions, regulations and they can pressure, threaten or even collapse your banking system by removing USD correspondence access.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...ayment-system-mir-senior-official/ar-AA123dgK
Case in point was Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam who had to be paid in physical cash. US sanctions on her meant banks in her own country cannot maintain a bank account for her in any currency if they have USD correspondence relationship...lol.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55113149
P.S But I get it that a lot of countries have outstanding national debt in USD so are held hostage. And Turkey is no exception to this...lol

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[GeneralGogol]

Martin Everson said:
P.S But I get it that a lot of countries have outstanding national debt in USD so are held hostage. And Turkey is no exception to this...lol
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Nobody forced them to raise debt in USD.

Many countries can't raise debt in their own currencies because it exposes the investors for currency risk: the country can always devalue their national currency. So they are effectively forced to raise debt in USD (or EUR) just by market forces. One can make the case that if investors don't trust your currency enough to lend you, maybe you shouldn't borrow in other currencies and expose yourself to a default.

Martin Everson said:
The very reason why countries should de-dollarize their financial systems asap
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De-dollarize into what?

Any movement of currency is subject to the central bank approval. When you transfer EUR your wire goes through TARGET2 and ECB can block any transaction they don't like. I have had a bank tell me "You can't do any transaction with country XXXX in EUR" due to ECB orders.

And even if you raise debt in EUR, the Euro is crashing so much against the USD- why would anybody want to hold EUR, much less have debt denominated in EUR that loses value by the day, if not by the hour.

Do you prefer having RMB accounts in which the Chinese central bank knows everything about you and your transactions and can block them? Any Chinese person that manage to escape China would gladly prefer USD\EUR rather than RMB.

As someone who himself lives in a "US vassal state" (as you yourself described it) it's a bit ironic to be so hostile to the USD and the American system. Clearly you have voted with your legs as to which system is better.

Martin Everson said:
Case in point was Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam who had to be paid in physical cash
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It's indeed sad that puppets of the CCP can't get a US bank account 🙁
The world's smallest violin is playing very sad music...

 

[JackAlabama]

GeneralGogol said:
Nobody forced them to raise debt in USD.

Many countries can't raise debt in their own currencies because it exposes the investors for currency risk: the country can always devalue their national currency. So they are effectively forced to raise debt in USD (or EUR) just by market forces. One can make the case that if investors don't trust your currency enough to lend you, maybe you shouldn't borrow in other currencies and expose yourself to a default.


De-dollarize into what?

Any movement of currency is subject to the central bank approval. When you transfer EUR your wire goes through TARGET2 and ECB can block any transaction they don't like. I have had a bank tell me "You can't do any transaction with country XXXX in EUR" due to ECB orders.

And even if you raise debt in EUR, the Euro is crashing so much against the USD- why would anybody want to hold EUR, much less have debt denominated in EUR that loses value by the day, if not by the hour.

Do you prefer having RMB accounts in which the Chinese central bank knows everything about you and your transactions and can block them? Any Chinese person that manage to escape China would gladly prefer USD\EUR rather than RMB.

As someone who himself lives in a "US vassal state" (as you yourself described it) it's a bit ironic to be so hostile to the USD and the American system. Clearly you have voted with your legs as to which system is better.


It's indeed sad that puppets of the CCP can't get a US bank account 🙁
The world's smallest violin is playing very sad music...
Click to expand...

De-dollarize into globally accepted censorship-resistant alternatives in which states cannot (and actually should not) interfere.

 

[Martin Everson]

GeneralGogol said:
De-dollarize into what?
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Use local currency and setup swap lines with China like other countries have done 😉. I discussed it below.

https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...-future-potential-sanctions.36646/post-204588

GeneralGogol said:
Any movement of currency is subject to the central bank approval. When you transfer EUR your wire goes through TARGET2 and ECB can block any transaction they don't like. I have had a bank tell me "You can't do any transaction with country XXXX in EUR" due to ECB orders.

And even if you raise debt in EUR, the Euro is crashing so much against the USD- why would anybody want to hold EUR, much less have debt denominated in EUR that loses value by the day, if not by the hour.
Click to expand...

Only you mentioned Euro. No idea why you brought up the euro. Only you know why you raised a discussion about the euro use and then go on to debate it with yourself...lol. Thats very weird 🙄.

P.S I know this thread now mentions China and Russia at same time but chill for a minute and don't get so easily triggered. You end up with a misty mind and start debating something (euros) no one has mentioned...lol smi(&%.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[RealDude]

Turkish state banks exit Russian payment system​

https://www.rt.com/business/563642-turkiye-banks-mir-cards-suspension/

 

[Forester]

GeneralGogol said:
Nobody forced them to raise debt in USD.

Many countries can't raise debt in their own currencies because it exposes the investors for currency risk: the country can always devalue their national currency. So they are effectively forced to raise debt in USD (or EUR) just by market forces. One can make the case that if investors don't trust your currency enough to lend you, maybe you shouldn't borrow in other currencies and expose yourself to a default.


De-dollarize into what?

Any movement of currency is subject to the central bank approval. When you transfer EUR your wire goes through TARGET2 and ECB can block any transaction they don't like. I have had a bank tell me "You can't do any transaction with country XXXX in EUR" due to ECB orders.

And even if you raise debt in EUR, the Euro is crashing so much against the USD- why would anybody want to hold EUR, much less have debt denominated in EUR that loses value by the day, if not by the hour.

Do you prefer having RMB accounts in which the Chinese central bank knows everything about you and your transactions and can block them? Any Chinese person that manage to escape China would gladly prefer USD\EUR rather than RMB.
Click to expand...

I (hopefully) understand your thoughts and to remarkable extent I share it; but really, why are you mentioning especially EUR and RMB? (Of course it would be something not much better, or even worse than USD.) Just for example, CHF debts have a long tradition. Not mentioning GBP and JPY, ...

GeneralGogol said:
It's indeed sad that puppets of the CCP can't get a US bank account 🙁
The world's smallest violin is playing very sad music...
Click to expand...

I must admit, I do not follow 🙁 (Perhaps it is a minor issue; nevertheless, Carrie Lam studied at University of Hong Kong and then in Cambridge, AFAIK.)

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I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[Martin Everson]

Turkey is looking at alternatives to Russian Mir card system​

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-russia-mir-payment-system-looking-alternatives

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[Forester]

Martin Everson said:

Turkey is looking at alternatives to Russian Mir card system​

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-russia-mir-payment-system-looking-alternatives
Click to expand...

UnionPay (?).
If so, I think the frightening Mir foreign participants in such a way as described above was the dumbest step that the U.S. made since a very long ago. Welcome, China dominancy.

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I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[369]

GeneralGogol said:
Nobody forced them to raise debt in USD.

Many countries can't raise debt in their own currencies because it exposes the investors for currency risk: the country can always devalue their national currency. So they are effectively forced to raise debt in USD (or EUR) just by market forces. One can make the case that if investors don't trust your currency enough to lend you, maybe you shouldn't borrow in other currencies and expose yourself to a default.


De-dollarize into what?

Any movement of currency is subject to the central bank approval. When you transfer EUR your wire goes through TARGET2 and ECB can block any transaction they don't like. I have had a bank tell me "You can't do any transaction with country XXXX in EUR" due to ECB orders.

And even if you raise debt in EUR, the Euro is crashing so much against the USD- why would anybody want to hold EUR, much less have debt denominated in EUR that loses value by the day, if not by the hour.

Do you prefer having RMB accounts in which the Chinese central bank knows everything about you and your transactions and can block them? Any Chinese person that manage to escape China would gladly prefer USD\EUR rather than RMB.

As someone who himself lives in a "US vassal state" (as you yourself described it) it's a bit ironic to be so hostile to the USD and the American system. Clearly you have voted with your legs as to which system is better.


It's indeed sad that puppets of the CCP can't get a US bank account 🙁
The world's smallest violin is playing very sad music...
Click to expand...

it seems you live in your old status quo.

saudi arabia is NOW OFFICALY protected by Russia and not USA anymore.
At the right timing this will be announced so guess what will stay from the petro dollar.
There is a reason why central banks are buying gold and why biz made gold tier 1 money

As someone who himself lives in a "US vassal state" (as you yourself described it) it's a bit ironic to be so hostile to the USD and the American system. Clearly you have voted with your legs as to which system is better.
Click to expand...

Keep holding your money after the peak in USD and lets see how much worth it will be in 2025.
Vassal by choice or by force?

 

[wellington]

Dollar is on the way out, one last run to 165 region (DXY) then collapse.

369 said:
Keep holding your money after the peak in USD and lets see how much worth it will be in 2025.
Vassal by choice or by force?
Click to expand...

It peaks around Nov 24 so not a good time to be holding in 25.

 

[369]

wellington said:
Dollar is on the way out, one last run to 165 region (DXY) then collapse.


It peaks around Nov 24 so not a good time to be holding in 25.
Click to expand...

yes i see the same date arround the peak and after that only one way south losing like 50% to AUD/CAD/RUB/SGD till 2025

 

[Martin Everson]

These US actions towards Turkey, a fellow NATO member, is the very reason countries need to de-dollarize in the long term. Once countries start this process only then will the U.S have a much more humble relationship with them. While the U.S has a free license to effectively commit financial terrorism against you because you use the dollar in international trade and hold some of your own national debt in dollars then nothing will change.

Bottom line is an alternative solution will be found and it may come out of the BRICS.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[Jerry1911]

wellington said:
Nov 24
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Just to be clear, you're referring to November 2024?

 

[RealDude]

Jerry1911 said:
Just to be clear, you're referring to November 2024?
Click to expand...

I think he means 11/24/2100?

 

[wellington]

Martin Everson said:
These US actions towards Turkey, a fellow NATO member, is the very reason countries need to de-dollarize in the long term. Once countries start this process only then will the U.S have a much more humble relationship with them. While the U.S has a free license to effectively commit financial terrorism against you because you use the dollar in international trade and hold some of your own national debt in dollars then nothing will change.

Bottom line is an alternative solution will be found and it may come out of the BRICS.
Click to expand...

And essential infrastructure terrorism... no way Russia blew up its last bargaining chip.

RealDude said:
I think he means 11/24/2100?
Click to expand...

Nov 2024