Why do Romanian banks ask for an address?

[accountantromania]

backpacker said:
What you explain above would mean that Romania reports 99% of all foreigners systemically wrong. Only very few countries issue a national ID to a citizen who lives permanently abroad and even fewer write the full foreign address on a national ID.

How about showing the Romanian bank a Tax ID or permanent resident card of a third country as proof of address/proof of legal residency?

• Example: Potential customer of a Romanian bank is a Portugese citizen who intends to opens a bank account by showing his Portugese passport + his permanent residence permit of Switzerland. The customer also has a temporary residence permit of Romania. He can only provide his permanent address in Switzerland and his temporary address in Romania to the bank since he has no address in Portugal (he left Portugal for good 20 years ago). Will the Romanian bank refuse this customer? Where will the Romanian bank report this customer for CRS purposes??

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I am stating that the banks in Romania rely solely on the information stated on the documents of identification. If the information changes, they change their record, accordingly. Most countries issue new IDs to their citizens in their embassies, otherwise you wouldn't be able to leave a foreign country if you lost your ID on a vacation or business trip. To clarify the procedures contact your embassy.

Obtaining a certificate of Residence in Romania might be an indicator for the tax residence but it does not mean that you can just come to Romania, obtain a certificate of residence (temporary permit) and immediately your tax residences changes. As a consequence a first reporting might occur based on old information, that might indeed be the case.

 

[Martin Everson]

That's interesting information about the system in Romania.

Also any address held on bank record will be CRS reported to by the very nature of CRS indicia.

I suggested what to do below.

Martin Everson said:
Whatever Romanian banks have going on is not reflective of behavior of other banks in EU. If you need a local Romanian account details specifically then just use Wise.
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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[accountantromania]

Unfortunately, last time we attempted an application with WISE, they stated that the service was not available for Romania. This might be subject to change over time,

 

[backpacker]

accountantromania said:
Unfortunately, last time we attempted an application with WISE, they stated that the service was not available for Romania. This might be subject to change over time,
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When was that?
Already for quite a while WISE issues even debit cards for residents of Romania -> Can I get the Wise card in my country? | Wise Help Centre
Since the OP is foremost looking to open/maintain a private account, WISE should very well do the trick.

 

[Martin Everson]

backpacker said:
Already for quite a while WISE issues even debit cards for residents of Romania -> Can I get the Wise card in my country? | Wise Help Centre
Since the OP is foremost looking to open/maintain a private account, WISE should very well do the trick.
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Yeah they offer Romanian local account details even.

accountantromania said:
Unfortunately, last time we attempted an application with WISE, they stated that the service was not available for Romania. This might be subject to change over time,
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Anything is possible these days with compliance depts. So I have to ask also is that something new?

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[accountantromania]

I am referring to business accounts and this happened just a mere six weeks ago,

 

[Martin Everson]

accountantromania said:
I am referring to business accounts and this happened just a mere six weeks ago,
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Ok I see.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[accountantromania]

Either a new applicant waits six months to be able to offer documented proof of residence in Romania for six months, updating his/her documents or taking the "risk" of being reported, which shouldn't be a problem at all, f supportive documentation can be provided to demonstrate factual tax residence in Romania.

If you think about it, it actually makes sense, because not everybody just showing up with a work and rental contract is automatically considered a tax resident. CRS is for most countries still a new bureaucratic beast and countries try rather to comply, than making mistakes along the way.

For "honest" tax residents it shouldn't be a problem at all being reported, even on preventive reportings..

 

[backpacker]

accountantromania said:
If you think about it, it actually makes sense, because not everybody just showing up with a work and rental contract is automatically considered a tax resident.
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This is certainly true.

However, picking up again my example in post #20 the question remains if such an individual will be refused by a bank in Romania.
Let's forget CRS for a while and just concentrate on the address question: The potential client can not give an address in Portugal (passport country) because he did not live there for the past 20 years. He can only provide his address in Switzerland where he has permanent residency. His Portugese passport does not show any indication that he lives in Switzerland. As proof of address the potential client is able to provide a Swiss residence permit ID and Swiss tax number (AHV) ... (?)

 

[pixbix]

Due! Stop it!

Here is how to solve the problem , buy a house for 1000-2000 , and you have an address!


https://www.olx.ro/d/imobiliare/cas...rrency=EUR&search[filter_float_price:to]=5000

 

[backpacker]

pixbix said:
Due! Stop it!

Here is how to solve the problem , buy a house for 1000-2000 , and you have an address!


https://www.olx.ro/d/imobiliare/cas...rrency=EUR&search[filter_float_price:to]=5000
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As indicated by the OP (post #1) and in my sample-question (post #20) the Romanian address already exists. Read it again!

 

[Untangle]

Each country in Europe has different rules when it comes to opening bank accounts, in Ireland you need a PPS number (Irish tax ID), in Belgium you need to be registered with the commune so you have a local resident card and so on...welcome to Europe. Just adapt to whatever they want

 

[Marzio]

Untangle said:
in Ireland you need a PPS number (Irish tax ID)
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Is this valid for companies and individuals?

 

[Untangle]

Individuals

 

[thedirtyteller]

Mike Forman said:
Some jurisdictions and banks ask for your permanent residence. As you mentioned you only have a temporary residence permit.

I have encountered the same issue in different countries and different banks and there is no way around. They don't even care what address you indicate there as long as the country matches with your citizenship unless you can proof permanent residence (with a permanent residence card) in another country.

The bank will probably report your bank account by CRS to your home country. If you have nothing to hide and you really broke ties there by being there a limited time, have no more assets and indicated in the civil register your address abroad this should be no problem.

Still even you live abroad with all proof, some European countries still will try to tax you and then a good tax lawyer is required.
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Is Denmark a part of these countries that will try this?

backpacker said:
Indeed, only very few countries do CRS reporting the right way. Countries with a system of legal address/de facto address are definitely not in this group of correct reporting.
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In my situation will that be an advantage?

accountantromania said:
As a tax consultancy firm based in Bucharest we know the inner workings of the local banks very well.
The banks work quite primitive and take any address that is stated in your document of identification.

In most passports there is no complete address of residence, but in many national IDs.

Once you can prove to the embassy of your origin in Bucharest, that you are resident in Bucharest they might issue a new document of identification with the new address in Romania.

If you present this new document to the bank, the changes will be made, accordingly. But you will need six months of records and some processing time with the embassy to get to this point.

It is the only practical way, that I am aware of, to change your address with the bank.
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I got help from a lawyer firm to receive this "certificate de inregistrare" Or temporary residence permit. I also got a CNP code. But they still asked for a permanent address. Was it that you meant in your third paragraph? And will they report the permanent address of my home country I gave them, back to my home country?

accountantromania said:
I am stating that the banks in Romania rely solely on the information stated on the documents of identification. If the information changes, they change their record, accordingly. Most countries issue new IDs to their citizens in their embassies, otherwise you wouldn't be able to leave a foreign country if you lost your ID on a vacation or business trip. To clarify the procedures contact your embassy.

Obtaining a certificate of Residence in Romania might be an indicator for the tax residence but it does not mean that you can just come to Romania, obtain a certificate of residence (temporary permit) and immediately your tax residences changes. As a consequence a first reporting might occur based on old information, that might indeed be the case.
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So according to this, I'm not a tax resident here? You have to explain further.

Last edited: Sep 21, 2022

 

[backpacker]

thedirtyteller said:
In my situation will that be an advantage?
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I do not know what you want to achieve, hence it is difficult to talk about advantage or disadvantage.
However, the RO bank will most likely report your account balance/turnover to the "wrong" country. "Wrong" in terms of CRS which gives clear guidance on how to handle your case correctly.

 

[Jerry1911]

backpacker said:
Where will the Romanian bank report this customer for CRS purposes??
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Certainly not to Portugal!

 

[clemens]

pixbix said:
Due! Stop it!

Here is how to solve the problem , buy a house for 1000-2000 , and you have an address!


https://www.olx.ro/d/imobiliare/cas...rrency=EUR&search[filter_float_price:to]=5000
Click to expand...

Serious, you mean you can buy a house for a few thousand euros in Romania ?

What a mess of a country. With not too much money you can live as an King there, build a castle for no money and live your life, just don't look out of the windows!

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One of my favorit articles in Mentor Group ~ Sending money anonymously archieve Financial Anonymity

 

[pixbix]

clemens said:
Serious, you mean you can buy a house for a few thousand euros in Romania ?

What a mess of a country. With not too much money you can live as an King there, build a castle for no money and live your life, just don't look out of the windows!
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For sure. You buy one in the forest, and the view will be amazing. You can also get a cheap one in Portugal, or anywhere. even in USA maybe, but in US i think it will in the desert... that's a mess... or in Detroit... but in Romania , you buy one in mountains and you are fine.
Just take care to not have any wolf or bears around.

Is this that bad ?

https://www.storia.ro/ro/oferta/cas...estii-de-sus-judetul-olt-id-16674-IDf5ZZ.html

Last edited: Sep 22, 2022

 

[thedirtyteller]

pixbix said:
For sure. You buy one in the forest, and the view will be amazing. You can also get a cheap one in Portugal, or anywhere. even in USA maybe, but in US i think it will in the desert... that's a mess... or in Detroit... but in Romania , you buy one in mountains and you are fine.
Just take care to not have any wolf or bears around.

Is this that bad ?

https://www.storia.ro/ro/oferta/cas...estii-de-sus-judetul-olt-id-16674-IDf5ZZ.html
Click to expand...

I would be wary of buying that even if it is "cheap". Romania has a lot of gypsies and you don't want to live in a neighborhood with them. You will inhale the stench of burned tires 24/7 and keep anything of value indoors. This includes even something as silly as car tires or some iron. Secondly, Romania also has a problem with stray dogs; the farther away from the city, the worse the problem gets.