SALARY IN CRYPTO IN SPAIN, BANK AND TAXES

[kokolokop]

Hey I moved to Spain where I will work remotely and receive the salary in crypto as a contractor.

Anyone knows what taxes I will be required to pay under the local law if Spain becomes my tax residency eventually after living 6 or more months in here.

Any recommendation on how to organize my tax efficiency in Spain in that case?

Also, what are the best banks to cashout crypto from exchanges to local banks without any issues? Any local recommendations?

It's all confusing to me, am i going to pay double tax for crypto tax and personal tax when i will receive the salary in crypto?

Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[kokolokop]

Do I have to pay taxes in spain on crypto gains or crypto salary for 2022 even if i will live here only for 3 months in 2022? What if I leave spain in May 2023, will I not have to pay taxes there, since I only will live 5 months in next calendar year and 3 months in this calendar year so never over 6 months? Is that how it works? If you live in Spain for less than six months (183 days) in a calendar year, you are a non-resident and only pay taxes on the income from Spain. but my salary will be on exchange so not in spain theoritically.

If i would live for 5 months in 3 different countries where I would need to pay taxes? Theoritically I would not have a tax residency anywhere in that case, is that mean I dont pay taxes anywhere? What if my job is remote and i get salary online and company has no offices in any of these countries. I wont be a tax resident anywhere? Considering that my home country has no double taxes with any of these countries. How it works? Anyone?

Last edited: Sep 16, 2022

 

[sonato]

you will be taxed for all your crypto earnings in Spain, only a few countries like Germany and a few more will not tax you on crypto.

 

[kokolokop]

sonato said:
you will be taxed for all your crypto earnings in Spain, only a few countries like Germany and a few more will not tax you on crypto.
Click to expand...

even if i stay less than a 6 months, in that case i wont be officially resident and should be required to pay taxes only on spain income right?

kokolokop said:
even if i stay less than a 6 months, in that case i wont be officially resident and should be required to pay taxes only on spain income right?
Click to expand...

and crypto on exchanges is i think considered outside of spain and thereofre not taxable

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

kokolokop said:
It's all confusing to me, am i going to pay double tax for crypto tax and personal tax when i will receive the salary in crypto?
Click to expand...

You pay personal income tax on the initial amount, and then capital gains tax if you make a profit when you sell the crypto

kokolokop said:
Also, what are the best banks to cashout crypto from exchanges to local banks without any issues? Any local recommendations?
Click to expand...

BBVA is an ok bank

kokolokop said:
Any recommendation on how to organize my tax efficiency in Spain in that case?
Click to expand...

Leave Spain / dont declare the gains. Hacienda is sloppy at best and for low amounts its easy to circumvent.

 

[kokolokop]

TheCryptoAnt said:
You pay personal income tax on the initial amount, and then capital gains tax if you make a profit when you sell the crypto



BBVA is an ok bank



Leave Spain / dont declare the gains. Hacienda is sloppy at best and for low amounts its easy to circumvent.
Click to expand...

hey thanks for reply. but am I going to be considered as a resident and pay taxes for 2022 even if i only live here for 3 months in this year? or i am exempted from any taxes. Considering that my employer is not in spain. and my income is from abroud but paid in crypto. not sure how to think about it cause i will not be a resident for 2022 in here.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

kokolokop said:
but am I going to be considered as a resident and pay taxes for 2022 even if i only live here for 3 months in this year?
Click to expand...

You are fine here imo. Start in '23 and it will all be fine.

 

[tradingworldwide321]

Hello kokolokop!
I hope you're doing well.
Look, WHY do you want to cash out crypto in a country where you actually are not going to live?
WHO said you HAVE TO cash out our crypto in Spain?
Do you plan to cash out your crypto in the next country you visit?
So, after leaving Spain and enter i.e. Peru, then Do you want to cash out your crypto in Peru?
This is not the way how crypto cash out works UNLESS you know what you're doing.

I'm pretty sure you're a tourist, visitor in Spain, it is going to be very difficult to open a personal bank account. In order to get it, you have to become a resident, and IF you become a resident THEN you have NOW a liability for THIS fiscal year and for the next one.
WHO said you have to become of Spain if you only stay 3 months in 2023?
Let's imagine you open your personal bank account in Spain, they will ask you: MR kokolokop WHY do you want to open an account with us? How many in / out transfers will you performn on a monthly basis? WHERE is your funds coming on and where it is going to be? What's your answer?
THEN you leave Spain and go to Thailand, BUT you get your cash out in Spain bank account and then you make a SWIFT transfer to Thailand. Then, Spain bank will call you asking WHAT IS IT GOING ON? WHY? And then you leave Thailand and go to Canada, and open a Canada bank account and make SWIFT transfer from Spain bank to Canada Personal bank account?

This is not how it works UNLESS you really know what you're doing.

As long as you ARE a TOURIST/VISITOR, DON'T STAY more than 183 days in a fiscal year, don't have your center of activities in Spain (Psssss, Close your mouth and say nothing) AND you get paid outside Spain in Crypto THEN YOU WON'T be classified as a Tax resident.

How to acomplish this?
INTERNATIONAL DEBIT CARD AND if you're wealthy enough you can cash out in great jurisdiction as UAE so you can keep your savings in FIAT currency.

I hope I am clear with this message.

Regards Mr kokolokop!

 

[kokolokop]

tradingworldwide321 said:
Hello kokolokop!
I hope you're doing well.
Look, WHY do you want to cash out crypto in a country where you actually are not going to live?
WHO said you HAVE TO cash out our crypto in Spain?
Do you plan to cash out your crypto in the next country you visit?
So, after leaving Spain and enter i.e. Peru, then Do you want to cash out your crypto in Peru?
This is not the way how crypto cash out works UNLESS you know what you're doing.

I'm pretty sure you're a tourist, visitor in Spain, it is going to be very difficult to open a personal bank account. In order to get it, you have to become a resident, and IF you become a resident THEN you have NOW a liability for THIS fiscal year and for the next one.
WHO said you have to become of Spain if you only stay 3 months in 2023?
Let's imagine you open your personal bank account in Spain, they will ask you: MR kokolokop WHY do you want to open an account with us? How many in / out transfers will you performn on a monthly basis? WHERE is your funds coming on and where it is going to be? What's your answer?
THEN you leave Spain and go to Thailand, BUT you get your cash out in Spain bank account and then you make a SWIFT transfer to Thailand. Then, Spain bank will call you asking WHAT IS IT GOING ON? WHY? And then you leave Thailand and go to Canada, and open a Canada bank account and make SWIFT transfer from Spain bank to Canada Personal bank account?

This is not how it works UNLESS you really know what you're doing.

As long as you ARE a TOURIST/VISITOR, DON'T STAY more than 183 days in a fiscal year, don't have your center of activities in Spain (Psssss, Close your mouth and say nothing) AND you get paid outside Spain in Crypto THEN YOU WON'T be classified as a Tax resident.

How to acomplish this?
INTERNATIONAL DEBIT CARD AND if you're wealthy enough you can cash out in great jurisdiction as UAE so you can keep your savings in FIAT currency.

I hope I am clear with this message.

Regards Mr kokolokop!
Click to expand...

My company requires me to work from spain but they have no offices there, they are registered in caymans. Im not goiing there with a plan to cash out any crypto, but i will have to as my salary every month will be paid in crypto. My question was if i start getting paid in crypto in october, november and december, should i pay taxes on this as i wont be officially a tax resident there yet since i will be only 3 months in a calendar year there. Next year i will become one if i stay longer than 6 months. i am not planning on leaving spain next year so i can pay taxes then. just dont know what happens to 2022. and what bank account i can get with no proof of residence.

 

[calnana]

kokolokop said:
Hey I moved to Spain
Click to expand...

The begining of a horror story right there. Gtfo of spain my friend.

 

[JackAlabama]

kokolokop said:
My company requires me to work from spain but they have no offices there, they are registered in caymans. Im not goiing there with a plan to cash out any crypto, but i will have to as my salary every month will be paid in crypto. My question was if i start getting paid in crypto in october, november and december, should i pay taxes on this as i wont be officially a tax resident there yet since i will be only 3 months in a calendar year there. Next year i will become one if i stay longer than 6 months. i am not planning on leaving spain next year so i can pay taxes then. just dont know what happens to 2022. and what bank account i can get with no proof of residence.
Click to expand...

If they do, at least live very close to Portuguese border and you might can setup smth there as well and even get residency and just walk over to Spain to your residence sometime for the sake of the company, which requires it.

 

[Freeman111]

You work from home and your company pays you in cryto but requires you to be physically in Spain ?
Thats BS unless they have a way to verify you are actually present in Spain, simply use a VPN with servers in Spain to connect through and don't stay in Spain more than 180 days to avoid becoming tax resident and that's it.
depending on your nationality you might want to be a tax resident somewhere though, so find a country on the same timezone without or with low income tax and that's it.

No matter what, avoid becoming a tax resident in Spain as it is among the worst tax hell eurogoulag countries.

 

[kokolokop]

calnana said:
The begining of a horror story right there. Gtfo of spain my friend.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on this? Everyone is saying its a tax hell but no one gives 1 argument for it? Any details on it?

Freeman111 said:
You work from home and your company pays you in cryto but requires you to be physically in Spain ?
Thats BS unless they have a way to verify you are actually present in Spain, simply use a VPN with servers in Spain to connect through and don't stay in Spain more than 180 days to avoid becoming tax resident and that's it.
depending on your nationality you might want to be a tax resident somewhere though, so find a country on the same timezone without or with low income tax and that's it.

No matter what, avoid becoming a tax resident in Spain as it is among the worst tax hell eurogoulag countries.
Click to expand...

Yes, basically my contract is based on the location, so if I would live in Asia for example the salary would be a half of that, so thats why I have decided to live there. I dont get why is it tax hell? No one gives examples why.

If I am in Spain less than 6 months I am 100% not responsible for any tax there?

What if I live 5 months in Spain, 5 months in Portugal and 2 months in Italy, I wont pay any taxes anywhere?

This is not really a solution for me, as far as I understand for salary in crypto I will pay only income tax + gains whenever I convert it to fiat.

Why the Spain is tax hell for me specifically? If i am only gonna pay like 20+% on income tax. And on crypto if i ever trade and stuff.

In portugal they can also consider you a trader and you will pay high taxes too. Any other country will charge you 20% tax, where you are in europe. not looking in moving to germany or switerland.

Last edited: Sep 18, 2022

 

[Freeman111]

https://www.expat.hsbc.com/expat-explorer/expat-guides/spain/tax-in-spain/
45% tax rate + 6% social tax on income above 60k euro, this is hell.

kokolokop said:
What if I live 5 months in Spain, 5 months in Portugal and 2 months in Italy, I wont pay any taxes anywhere?
Click to expand...

Depend on your country of origin, often if you are not a tax resident anywhere you are automatically a tax resident of you country of origin.

 

[kokolokop]

Freeman111 said:
https://www.expat.hsbc.com/expat-explorer/expat-guides/spain/tax-in-spain/
45% tax rate + 6% social tax on income above 60k euro, this is hell.


Depend on your country of origin, often if you are not a tax resident anywhere you are automatically a tax resident of you country of origin.
Click to expand...

what if i have not lived in my home country for past 10 years? if i have no clear residency for a specific year will it apply to my home country in EU?

Also what is the social tax on income that is less than 50,000 euro per year?

Based on my calculations since my income is much less than 50,000 my taxes should be around 25% a month, which is not that bad. If you earn big then yeah 45% is painful.

Does it make sense?

Also, my contract says that i am not employee and only a contractor so, who will be required to pay all social contributions and how are they counted then? I will be taxed on income tax, and my employer stated in the contract that it is a contractual deal sinc they cannot operate in spain yet since they dont have there a set up. so im thinking what will be the social contributions like if im a contractor. Employer states in the contract also that they are not responsible for any taxes and I am.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

kokolokop said:
what if i have not lived in my home country for past 10 years? if i have no clear residency for a specific year will it apply to my home country in EU?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately yes.
In practice you are more than likely to get away with it, but in paper yeah if you have no tax residency at all you fall back into your home country tax net.

kokolokop said:
Also, my contract says that i am not employee and only a contractor so, who will be required to pay all social contributions and how are they counted then? I will be taxed on income tax, and my employer stated in the contract that it is a contractual deal sinc they cannot operate in spain yet since they dont have there a set up. so im thinking what will be the social contributions like if im a contractor. Employer states in the contract also that they are not responsible for any taxes and I am.
Click to expand...

You are responsible for them, Google 'Espana autonomo' and cry.
Monthly payment starts at €50 and some time after goes up to a max of ~€300.

 

[legrant]

TheCryptoAnt said:
Unfortunately yes.
In practice you are more than likely to get away with it, but in paper yeah if you have no tax residency at all you fall back into your home country tax net.



You are responsible for them, Google 'Espana autonomo' and cry.
Monthly payment starts at €50 and some time after goes up to a max of ~€300.
Click to expand...

If you work as a contractor, you will probably be considered "autonomo" which means you'll have to pay IRPF (income tax) and cuota de autonomos (which starts at 294Eur per month), plus any money you make when you sell the crypto (exchanging between crypto also counts). It'll probably in the 25-30% range.

 

[kokolokop]

legrant said:
If you work as a contractor, you will probably be considered "autonomo" which means you'll have to pay IRPF (income tax) and cuota de autonomos (which starts at 294Eur per month), plus any money you make when you sell the crypto (exchanging between crypto also counts). It'll probably in the 25-30% range.
Click to expand...

Thank for the reply. It's super useful for me. I have a questions, isn't the social contributions set at 80 euro per month in the first year for someone new in Spain, it is 60 for 2022 and they will increase it to 80 for the next 2 years i think. So this and IRPF will be all I will pay + crypto taxes. Based on my calculation I should pay around 27% all together excluding crypto, which I think isnt that bad isnt it? For first 2 years of course, after that the social contributions might be 325 euro per month.

I just don't know if I can deduct like for example payments for the coworking spaces? or what I could deduct if I work at home and rent airbnbs only, water and electricity wont be possible to deduct with airbnbs.

Do you know what is a good price for the tax services, to hire a tax firm to calculate and submit all the papers during the tax year? What would be a fair price?

 

[legrant]

kokolokop said:
Thank for the reply. It's super useful for me. I have a questions, isn't the social contributions set at 80 euro per month in the first year for someone new in Spain, it is 60 for 2022 and they will increase it to 80 for the next 2 years i think. So this and IRPF will be all I will pay + crypto taxes. Based on my calculation I should pay around 27% all together excluding crypto, which I think isnt that bad isnt it? For first 2 years of course, after that the social contributions might be 325 euro per month.
Click to expand...

I think you're correct. I mean it's pretty high if you consider other places. Make sure you choose a cheap place to live otherwise you wont have much left at the end of the month.

 

[kokolokop]

legrant said:
I think you're correct. I mean it's pretty high if you consider other places. Make sure you choose a cheap place to live otherwise you wont have much left at the end of the month.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree it's pretty high alrady but not that bad for Spain, still high though. And yes, Im planning to stay at some places where I could actully rent a place for myself and not share the apartment with 5 other people. Im still going to consult everything with the tax lawyer. Thanks for the advise!