Where should one keep their wealth to avoid future potential sanctions?

[Martin Everson]

Having seen whats happened to people in Russia and Russian nationals living abroad, where does one think they should keep their wealth to prepare for arbitrary future sanctions?

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[daxbr]

Martin Everson said:
Having seen whats happened to people in Russia and Russian nationals living abroad, where does one think they should keep their wealth to prepare for arbitrary future sanctions?
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Where one holds his passports and permanent residencies.

 

[void]

no matter how much you hate it and how much it ruins your picture of tidy and regulation compliant world you already know the option number one 🙂

sadly it's also their only option I'm afraid

 

[troubled soul]

1. Gold
First and Most secure way is to hold Physical Gold to yourself. (In bag or any location where you can run with that gold when crisis happen).

2.Crypto
Without exchange account, Crypto stored in Paper wallet.

3. VCC, Prepaid Card, Gif Card.
Whenever crisis happen you can pay for ticket ,food etc.

4.Investment in Banana Republic.
If you rich enough you can play with law here or get new residency or passport and cut yourself from your country.
So many bank fraudster take citizenship in Antigua and Barbuda in past few year.

I think most of all methods works only for small amount.
If you are Roman Abramovich type of rich person there is no way you can hide or run away from sanction.

Recently, Germany seizes $594 million 512-foot super yacht that Russia's sixth-richest man named after his mother "The Alisher Usmanov"
I do not think Alisher Usmanov recover that yacht.
May be I am wrong.

Thanks

 

[RealDude]

Maybe in the EU:

EU set to receive membership bids from Georgia, Moldova​

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...-bids-georgia-moldova-eu-official-2022-03-03/
😉

 

[Martin Everson]

RealDude said:
Maybe in the EU:

EU set to receive membership bids from Georgia, Moldova​

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Lol...you think people should keep their wealth in Georgia to avoid potential future sanctions eek¤%&? Georgia was flattened by Russia in 2008 in a matter of days. President Saakashvili thought the west and NATO would come and help him if he stood up to Russia. It didn't end well for Georgia. The exact same thing what Ukraine is going through today. No one learns from history sadly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War
And Moldova I will pass. I don't think wealth is safe in either of those countries whether they are inside the EU or not. Plus with asset registers being setup in EU they could strip you of your wealth like Germany did the Jews and now EU doing to Russians.

https://www.ibtimes.com/france-germ...garchs-mega-yachts-owned-putin-allies-3422421

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[Nishizawa]

Will China join the sanctions the US demands? I heard they recently opened a CBDC wallet to compete with the US dollar.

Of course, I personally do not prefer to invest in China.

 

[JackAlabama]

Nishizawa said:
Will China join the sanctions the US demands? I heard they recently opened a CBDC wallet to compete with the US dollar.

Of course, I personally do not prefer to invest in China.
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I doubt that. When China gets more in the crossfires in the future, things will repeat there.

Martin Everson said:
Having seen whats happened to people in Russia and Russian nationals living abroad, where does one think they should keep their wealth to prepare for arbitrary future sanctions?
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Offshore banking becoming very difficult because when times get rough you will lose it which renders the whole excersie moot from the start.
*The only offshore way to invest is if you have the passport of the country in question. Also farmland, good if you have the local passport in question.

*Otherwise Bitcoin which seem to be indeed not prone to confiscation if done correctly with multisig etc which works without papers.
*Gold and PM as well but it is very hard to transport.
*Collectibles of all sorts (oldtimer cars, watches, badges, books, art, whiskey lol...).

 

[Sols]

First step in risk management is assessing the risk. Who are you and what risks do you face?

By and large, it's not going to be so much about where but in what currency. At least it's a worthwhile consideration. Any USD you hold is subject to US law and sanctions regardless of where the bank is. We haven't seen quite the same with other currencies yet, but it's a natural development if the other four of the top five traded currenceis (EU/EUR, UK/GBP, Japan/JPY, and Australia/AUD) decide to get protective over their currencies.

This might be a case for pegged or semi-pegged, convertible currencies like HKD and AED.

Another option would be currencies with fairly stable, significant economies to back them up and a reasonable degree of independence (SGD, CHF, CAD, NZD, SEK, NOK, DKK).

Of course, not holding fiat is a great way to avoid trouble related to fiat. As long as you can cash them out, stable coins would be great for this.

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This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[Martin Everson]

Nishizawa said:
Will China join the sanctions the US demands? I heard they recently opened a CBDC wallet to compete with the US dollar.
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I love to say zero chance but lets say 0.1% smi(&%.

JackAlabama said:
*The only offshore way to invest is if you have the passport of the country in question. Also farmland, good if you have the local passport in question.
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You have a good point. I should invest in agriculture. No one sanctions food import or exports as its a basic human need 😉.

Sols said:
Of course, not holding fiat is a great way to avoid trouble related to fiat.
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EU announced they will no long allow physical EUR banknotes to be exported to Russia. Who knows what they will do next.I am sure physical gold will be targeted. Other countries may follow too also.

https://report.az/en/other-countries/eu-bans-transfer-of-euro-banknotes-to-russia/

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[BoomBoom]

People in Russia struggle to leave the country also because they don't have usd or eur and are not allowed to exchange it. So even if they physically leave, what are they gonna do without any money?
I think this is a lesson to us all to hold at least some foreign cash always at home, probably both usd and eur, gbp , so when s**t hits the fan, and there is a window to run, you at least can buy some food and a bus ticket once outside the country.

 

[Konstanz]

I myself am from Eastern European country. I can say that these occupants russians should go to hell. Even regular people are brainwashed in russia.
Back to topic, the only good way to preserve wealth is keep crypto in my opinion

 

[RealDude]

Cigarettes and chocolate are a universal currency 😉

 

[Martin Everson]

BoomBoom said:
I think this is a lesson to us all to hold at least some foreign cash always at home, probably both usd and eur, gbp , so when s**t hits the fan, and there is a window to run, you at least can buy some food and a bus ticket once outside the country.
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100% correct. There is a good reason people in developing countries keep hard currency under their pillows and outside the banks.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[sonato]

As pointedt out in another thread, New Zealand comes not bad.

 

[RealDude]

sonato said:
As pointedt out in another thread, New Zealand comes not bad.
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Does New Zealand discriminate against immigrants older than 44 in the same way as Australia?

 

[EuroKiss]

Properties and traditional business in not so politically involved countries (Latin America, Africa, some parts of Asia).
Make friends among politics and high-level militaries (parties with ladies, etc), but stay behind scenes. If you have lot of money, repeat in a second country with more or less same characteristics (backup).

 

[countryfree]

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
You shall split. Properties in different countries. Cash in different currencies. Bank accounts in different countries. That's what I'm doing.

 

[Martin Everson]

countryfree said:
Bank accounts in different countries.
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But if your country is hit with sanctions then this will not help. Your sanctioned country will cause problems with banks continuing the relationship.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[Silvio]

Russian people with money have been preparing for this for a long time.

There's a reason Russians and Chinese were #1 group in Citizenship by Investments- they know that their own government can take what they have so the rich (=corrupt) ones have always prepared a way out. The top ones have already secured passports (whether by investment or by "descent") with accounts over the world.

The really high profile Russian oligarchs have been using strawmen to hold assets for a long time- with Putin's high school friends suddenly become billionaires (where in fact they are merely holding his wealth in custody)

RealDude said:
EU set to receive membership bids from Georgia, Moldova
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Not really a solid place to bank. Moldova was victim to a giant heist in their banks, a few hundred million EUR were stolen a few years ago.
Georgia I wouldn't trust with any amount larger than middle 5 figures.

If you don't want to use "nominees":
Any bank account is automatically reportable. Which means that the only thing you can keep which still produces yield is real estate, bought using trusts\nominees. Many European countries don't have a real UBO registry for real estate, and are so archaic that they will not report it in the near future- think Eastern Europe. So you could place your money in a relatively safe (from confiscation and from inflation) and get yield. Of course this brings you other risks (regulation risk, changes in tax on rents etc) but overall it seems it's one of the only things that is still not reportable if structured right. Some even allow buying using cash.