Can I insist on paying a tax as a tourist?

[JamesDonkey]

Plan:
go to some low or 0 tax country, stay there for a little while, 1 or a few months, as a tourist, and then deliberately pay some or, if that'd be a case, zero tax. But do so formally and officially. Thus a tax return would be obtained. And later on I'd that tax return elsewhere, somehow, if need be. Or even in that very country too,

Meaning, I'd insist that I want to pay some tax there, in order to then get a tax return.

Will this be in a sound plan?
Would any country avoid a temptation to take my tax money, even if I'm a tourist?

 

[zzzzzz]

If this foreign country has DTA with your home country, you will also have to pay the difference in your home country. If it doesn't have DTA you're taxed in both countries. Being a tourist doesn't make you non-resident at home.

The most important thing is exiting your home country's tax residency (cutting social and economic ties, having a home abroad - rented/owned with address, residence permit, utility bills, employment/business abroad, foreign driving license, getting nonresident status for tax purposes, foreign bank account, family and kids abroad, not staying more than 183 days in home country where you exited from...etc.) for at least 3-5 years with proofs.

 

[JamesDonkey]

zzzzzz said:
Being a tourist doesn't make you non-resident at home.
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Yes. But I'm a non resident at home.

zzzzzz said:
The most important thing is exiting your home country's tax residency (cutting social and economic ties, having a home abroad - rented/owned with address, residence permit, utility bills, employment/business abroad, foreign driving license, getting nonresident status for tax purposes, foreign bank account, family and kids abroad, not staying more than 183 days in home country where you exited from...etc.) for at least 3-5 years with proofs.
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As if you knew what my home country is, to give this advice.
What you've described is, mostly, about EU, US and other 1st world countries. Does that apply to me? No.

Last edited: Feb 27, 2022

 

[JohnnyDoe]

JamesDonkey said:
Yes. But I'm a non resident at home.


As if you knew what my home country is, to give this advice.
What you've described is, mostly, about EU, US and other 1st world countries. Does that apply to me? No.
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The basic rules on effective residence are the same everywhere (centre of vital interests). Tourists don't pay taxes. Non residents pay taxes on the income generated in that country.
Choose a non offshore country where taxes are law/enforcement is lax, become a resident, and then travel as much as you want.
But remember, if you leave some assets in your old country of residence, eventually they might be attacked. You could be right, and you might win in court, but you will have to defend yourself. So it's smarter to move both your a*s and your assets out of reach.

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[JamesDonkey]

JohnnyDoe said:
Tourists don't pay taxes.

Non residents pay taxes on the income generated in that country.
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That's not true. Where is that written? Nowhere.
Is that the case for all the countries in the world? Not either.

JohnnyDoe said:
The basic rules on effective residence are the same everywhere (centre of vital interests).
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Alright. I don't have one.

JohnnyDoe said:
Choose a non offshore country where taxes are law/enforcement is lax, become a resident, and then travel as much as you want.
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Or better yet - don't advice if you aren't aware of one's situation.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

JamesDonkey said:
Alright. I don't have one.
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Then you are considered subject to taxation in your country of citizenship (assuming that what you say is true).
If you want to play smartass with the taxman you'd better be really smart (and have deep pockets). Don't think you can outsmart a state.

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[fshore]

JamesDonkey said:
Plan:
go to some low or 0 tax country, stay there for a little while, 1 or a few months, as a tourist, and then deliberately pay some or, if that'd be a case, zero tax. But do so formally and officially. Thus a tax return would be obtained. And later on I'd that tax return elsewhere, somehow, if need be. Or even in that very country too,

Meaning, I'd insist that I want to pay some tax there, in order to then get a tax return.

Will this be in a sound plan?
Would any country avoid a temptation to take my tax money, even if I'm a tourist?
Click to expand...

What country do you have in mind? Many countries will not allow you to pay taxes if you don't have the correct visa, eg you don't have the right to work there.
You'd need to look into which countries that you could make an excuse for filing a tax return in order to get a tax number. You could buy property or maybe some shares in a local company.

Still, not sure exactly why you'd want this, but it could be possible in some countries.

 

[calnana]

Impossible to give meaningful advice without more details, as you said we don't know your situation.

You may find this book useful though: A Kids' Guide to Manners: 50 Fun Etiquette Lessons for Kids (and Their Families): Flannery, Katherine: 9781641520959: Amazon.com: Books

 

[khinkali]

Any "non-resident natural person earning income from a Georgian source" is a taxpayer in Georgia.

You can get a tax number easily. You need one as a tourist to receive a package from from abroad above some small value. I don't know how good the documentation is.

The next question is what you want this for. It won't help you avoid taxation in other countries.

If it's for KYC then you can get a bank reference letter or proper statement with transactions and your Georgian address if you know how.

JohnnyDoe said:
Then you are considered subject to taxation in your country of citizenship (assuming that what you say is true).
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This is only true for some countries and not true for others.

There can be difficulties being a "nomad" such as opening bank accounts and broker accounts, but there are countries that do not tax non resident citizens whether they have some other legal or tax residence or not.

 

[JamesDonkey]

JohnnyDoe said:
Then you are considered subject to taxation in your country of citizenship (assuming that what you say is true).
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That's not true -- there's no such a rule on the global level.

You like to apply the rules of your part of the world to the whole world, don't you? 🙂

khinkali said:
You can get a tax number easily. You need one as a tourist to receive a package from from abroad above some small value. I don't know how good the documentation is.
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But a tax Number isn't the same as a tax return, is it? A tax number is just an information and isn't an obligation to pay tax. One can have a tax number and yet never pay taxes, legally.

Belive you or not, I've obtained a tax number precisely in Georgia while I was there - 🙂

khinkali said:
The next question is what you want this for. It won't help you avoid taxation in other countries.
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Just in case. It won't hurt me, will it? But might help in some case, because banks and EMI-s love paper and documents. Why not get a tax return from, say, Panama, Paraguya or Costa Rica? No downside.

Last edited: Feb 28, 2022

 

[JohnnyDoe]

JamesDonkey said:
That's not true -- there's no such a rule on the global level.
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https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/taxa...condensed-version-2017_mtc_cond-2017-en#page1
https://www.un.org/esa/ffd/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/MDT_2017.pdf
Sorry to contradict you, but unless you live in a country that is not part of the UN (?) the rule is the same everywhere.

his [residence] status shall be determined as follows:

a) he shall be deemed to be a resident only of the State in which he has a permanent homeavailable to him; if he has a permanent home available to him in both States, he shall be deemed to be a resident only of the State with which his personal and economic relations are closer (centre of vital interests);b) if the State in which he has his centre of vital interests cannot be determined, or if he has not a permanent home available to him in either State, he shall be deemed to be a resident only of the State in which he has an habitual abode;c) if he has a habitual abode in both States or in neither of them, he shall be deemed to be a resident only of the State of which he is a national;d) if he is a national of both States or of neither of them, the competent authorities of the Contracting States shall settle the question by mutual agreement.

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[JamesDonkey]

calnana said:
Impossible to give meaningful advice without more details, as you said we don't know your situation.

You may find this book useful though: A Kids' Guide to Manners: 50 Fun Etiquette Lessons for Kids (and Their Families): Flannery, Katherine: 9781641520959: Amazon.com: Books
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Why would you want to give advice if I've not asked to give me one? I've asked a question.

JohnnyDoe said:
https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/taxa...condensed-version-2017_mtc_cond-2017-en#page1
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Give me the difinition of "live in a country". I don't own any home anywhere, and don't stay in any particular place constantly.

Where does the edge lie between a) living in a country and b) visiting it and c) staying there for some time?

1 day per year - is this living? 2 days? 5? 55? 200? How many? Where's it written? Nowhere.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

JamesDonkey said:
Give me the difinition of "live in a country". I don't own any home anywhere, and don't stay in any particular place constantly.

Where does the edge lie between a) living in a country and b) visiting it and c) staying there for some time?

1 day per year - is this living? 2 days? 5? 55? 200? How many? Where's it written? Nowhere.
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then para c) applies:

he shall be deemed to be a resident only of the State of which he is a national

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[khinkali]

@JohnnyDoe you've linked to a model convention. A template. Something that jurisdictions can use or take parts from. Some do countries tax people in the way you're describing. Others do not.

JamesDonkey said:
Just in case. It won't hurt me, will it?
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I'm not sure in what way banks are interested in the return that you submit to the government, but I also wouldn't want to try to prove a negative. 🙂

You got a tax number in Georgia (I'd be interested if that came with anything useful - name, address, government stamp). If you owe any taxes in Georgia then you are supposed to submit a tax return. You do not need to be tax resident or have a residence permit to be a tax payer.

 

[fshore]

JohnnyDoe said:
then para c) applies:

he shall be deemed to be a resident only of the State of which he is a national
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You misunderstand. A tax treaty is used when a person is tax resident in both countries of the treaty. It's not relevant if you are not tax resident in one (or both) of the countries.
From article 1:
This Convention shall apply to persons who are residents of one or both of the Contracting States.

JamesDonkey said:
But a tax Number isn't the same as a tax return, is it? A tax number is just an information and isn't an obligation to pay tax. One can have a tax number and yet never pay taxes, legally.

Belive you or not, I've obtained a tax number precisely in Georgia while I was there - 🙂
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You can probably file a tax return with 0 in income. Did you try to file a tax return in Georgia?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

fshore said:
You misunderstand. A tax treaty is used when a person is tax resident in both countries of the treaty. It's not relevant if you are not tax resident in one (or both) of the countries.
From article 1:
This Convention shall apply to persons who are residents of one or both of the Contracting States.
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these are the principles used to determine one's residency, not necessarily when it is in doubt between two countries. In other words, nobody can be without a (tax) residence, even when living on a boat in international waters.

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[JamesDonkey]

JohnnyDoe said:
In other words, nobody can be without a (tax) residence, even when living on a boat in international waters.
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Who says so or where is it explicitly written? meaning - every person at all times has at least one tax residency

 

[fshore]

JohnnyDoe said:
these are the principles used to determine one's residency, not necessarily when it is in doubt between two countries. In other words, nobody can be without a (tax) residence, even when living on a boat in international waters.
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No, you are spreading misinformation. The laws regarding tax residence are national, every country will have the tax residency rules written in their laws.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

JamesDonkey said:
Who says so or where is it explicitly written? meaning - every person at all times has at least one tax residency
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Try having this discussion with the taxman, then tell me how it went LOL

fshore said:
No, you are spreading misinformation. The laws regarding tax residence are national, every country will have the tax residency rules written in their laws.
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Ok tell me one country where the UN principles don't apply.

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[JamesDonkey]

JohnnyDoe said:
Try having this discussion with the taxman, then tell me how it went LOL
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Alright. But of what country?

JohnnyDoe said:
Ok tell me one country where the UN principles don't apply.
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Technially they may be in place. And? How about a) what's actually on practise b) whether or not the rules are enforced?


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Anyway, let's get back to my original question.