The risk of citizenship by investment programs

[JohnnyDoe]

This is what recently happened in St. Lucia:

And the news: CIP Minister revokes Saint Lucian Citizenship of Nigerian fraudster - St. Lucia News Online

Now, the BIG problem is that:

1. This guy is SUSPECTED, not convicted of a crime.
2. The alleged crime was supposedly committed AFTER he obtained citizenship.

This means that citizenship can and will be revoked just because of an article appeared on Google. And that whatever you do after you have received your citizenship can lead to its revocation.
Now, imagine if you build a new life based on the new citizenship, renounce your previous passport and then you become stateless! Your life would be ruined.

Be very careful with those programs! They are legalized scams, only good for Chinese criminals as nobody can find out anything in China.

If you are looking for a new citizenship, be patient, and look at other more solid and even cheaper options, even if they are slower. For example, Panama or other countries where you can apply for citizenship after 5 years of residence, with minimum or no stay requirements. Citizenship obtained that way cannot be revoked.

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[flashbang]

carlo39 said:
This is what recently happened in St. Lucia:

View attachment 3077

And the news: CIP Minister revokes Saint Lucian Citizenship of Nigerian fraudster - St. Lucia News Online

Now, the BIG problem is that:

1. This guy is SUSPECTED, not convicted of a crime.
2. The alleged crime was supposedly committed AFTER he obtained citizenship.

This means that citizenship can and will be revoked just because of an article appeared on Google. And that whatever you do after you have received your citizenship can lead to its revocation.
Now, imagine if you build a new life based on the new citizenship, renounce your previous passport and then you become stateless! Your life would be ruined.

Be very careful with those programs! They are legalized scams, only good for Chinese criminals as nobody can find out anything in China.

If you are looking for a new citizenship, be patient, and look at other more solid and even cheaper options, even if they are slower. For example, Panama or other countries where you can apply for citizenship after 5 years of residence, with minimum or no stay requirements. Citizenship obtained that way cannot be revoked.
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"They are legalized scams, only good for Chinese criminals as nobody can find out anything in China."

Why ? Please explain.

 

[Martin Everson]

carlo39 said:
Now, imagine if you build a new life based on the new citizenship, renounce your previous passport and then you become stateless! Your life would be ruined.
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Well its against Article 15 of UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights for a person to be made stateless. So he would have still had Nigerian Citizenship or they would not have been able to revoke it.....lol. Even if they did and he had no other passport he could take them to court. Mistake guy made was maybe keeping his old citizenship smi(&%.

Btw the UK can revoke your British passport even if you were born in UK and don't have another passport. Any second generation immigrant in UK can have UK nationality revoked without being informed and be rendered stateless whether they have a second passport or not...lol. UK argues that just being eligible to get a second passport i.e a passport of your parents means they get around preventing you from becoming stateless...lol.

https://www.bishopandsewell.co.uk/2...tish-citizenship-of-isis-bride-shamima-begum/

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

flashbang said:
"They are legalized scams, only good for Chinese criminals as nobody can find out anything in China."

Why ? Please explain.
Click to expand...

Try to obtain information from China about a Chinese citizen!
Come on, everyone knows that those passports are for sale, you can't fool no one.

Martin Everson said:
Well its against Article 15 of UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights for a person to be made stateless. So he would have still had Nigerian Citizenship or they would not have been able to revoke it.....lol. Even if they did and he had no other passport he could take them to court. Mistake guy made was maybe keeping his old citizenship smi(&%.

Btw the UK can revoke your British passport even if you were born in UK and don't have another passport. Any second generation immigrant in UK can have UK nationality revoked without being informed and be rendered stateless whether they have a second passport or not...lol. UK argues that just being eligible to get a second passport i.e a passport of your parents means they get around preventing you from becoming stateless...lol.

https://www.bishopandsewell.co.uk/2...tish-citizenship-of-isis-bride-shamima-begum/
Click to expand...

Sure, you can always sue the government. Your lawyers will be happy. $100k (plus fees) lost for buying the citizenship, and now legal bills!
Anyway I strongly doubt that St. Lucia asked the Nigerian guy if he still had his Nigerian passport before revoking his citizenship.

As for the UK: good to know. But I don't trust a country that in 2022 is still supporting a monarch and her family of inept parasites.

Last edited: Jan 2, 2022
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[Martin Everson]

carlo39 said:
Anyway I strongly doubt that St. Lucia asked the Nigerian guy if he still had his Nigerian passport before revoking his citizenship.
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I think your right unfortunately.

carlo39 said:
As for the UK: good to know. But I don't trust a country that in 2022 is still supporting a monarch and her family of inept parasites.
Click to expand...

Cannot agree more thu&¤#

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[JohnnyDoe]

Let's see now what happens to Russian citizens who obtained their passport via a CIP. Will it be revoked?

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[Martin Everson]

Could well be that pressure is put on Malta and other countries to revoke such citizenship's granted to Russians. But then that would mean an end to such CIP programs as they would be worthless going forward.

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[maxmoney]

Martin Everson said:
But then that would mean an end to such CIP programs as they would be worthless going forward.
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why, there are other than Russians using such tools?

 

[Martin Everson]

maxmoney said:
why, there are other than Russians using such tools?
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Yes but look how UK banned its golden visa (not CBI) program and there are people other than Russians that were using it too. No behavior when its comes to the word "Russia" is rational or proportional in the current climate. Even Bulgaria has also voted to end CBI program also.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...scrap-golden-visa-scheme-amid-russia-concerns
https://www.imidaily.com/europe/bulgarian-parliament-votes-to-end-cbi-program-in-first-reading/
P.S More ending or suspending may follow.

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[KDX]

Martin Everson said:
Yes but look how UK banned its golden visa (not CBI) program and there are people other than Russians that were using it too. No behavior when its comes to the word "Russia" is rational or proportional in the current climate. Even Bulgaria has also voted to end CBI program also.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...scrap-golden-visa-scheme-amid-russia-concerns
https://www.imidaily.com/europe/bulgarian-parliament-votes-to-end-cbi-program-in-first-reading/
P.S More ending or suspending may follow.
Click to expand...

Stupid stupid stupid....

 

[lostguy]

JohnnyDoe said:
For example, Panama or other countries where you can apply for citizenship after 5 years of residence, with minimum or no stay requirements. Citizenship obtained that way cannot be revoked.
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can you please explain.... you need to be resident in Panama for 5 years but there is no obligations to stay there.. how are you doing that?

 

[Golden Fleece]

lostguy said:
can you please explain.... you need to be resident in Panama for 5 years but there is no obligations to stay there.. how are you doing that?
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It is not possible. It is just a dream. What happens in countries like Panama, Paraguay, Uruguay, and other Latin American nations is that lawyers use the possibility of citizenship as a marketing tool to get people to pay for permanent residency. They usually fail to disclose that citizenship is highly unlikely, if not impossible, without actually living in the country, becoming part of the community, and learning the language.

That does not mean that getting permanent residency is not worthwhile. Just do not expect to gain citizenship unless you actually live there and prove that you have ties to the community.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Golden Fleece said:
It is not possible. It is just a dream. What happens in countries like Panama, Paraguay, Uruguay, and other Latin American nations is that lawyers use the possibility of citizenship as a marketing tool to get people to pay for permanent residency. They usually fail to disclose that citizenship is highly unlikely, if not impossible, without actually living in the country, becoming part of the community, and learning the language.

That does not mean that getting permanent residency is not worthwhile. Just do not expect to gain citizenship unless you actually live there and prove that you have ties to the community.
Click to expand...

If you know Spanish at a decent level and are smart enough, you will obtain your citizenship, even without a lawyer.

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[Golden Fleece]

JohnnyDoe said:
If you know Spanish at a decent level and are smart enough, you will obtain your citizenship, even without a lawyer.
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It is absolutely not true for Panama and Uruguay. You need to prove a connection to the country even beyond just living there. It can be possible in Paraguay but only with a politically connected lawyer and with enough mordida money for everyone involved.

I know people who found this out the hard way. Look through the archives for Expat Bob. He and his wife literally lived in Uruguay for the entire time required by law and both spoke fluent Spanish. A judge still denied their citizenship applications, because they did not show enough of a connection to the country.

Your problem is that you believe people in these countries are stupid. They want real citizens, not fake ones. If it were as easy as you say, it would be common knowledge in the offshore community.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Golden Fleece said:
It is absolutely not true for Panama and Uruguay. You need to prove a connection to the country even beyond just living there. It can be possible in Paraguay but only with a politically connected lawyer and with enough mordida money for everyone involved.

I know people who found this out the hard way. Look through the archives for Expat Bob. He and his wife literally lived in Uruguay for the entire time required by law and both spoke fluent Spanish. A judge still denied their citizenship applications, because they did not show enough of a connection to the country.

Your problem is that you believe people in these countries are stupid. They want real citizens, not fake ones. If it were as easy as you say, it would be common knowledge in the offshore community.
Click to expand...

”¦”and are smart enough””¦

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[Golden Fleece]

JohnnyDoe said:
”¦”and are smart enough””¦
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It has nothing to do with being smart. It is not going to happen, at least not legally.

If you are implying to dodge the legal requirements, then that is the opposite of smart = potential jail time.

BTW: Sovereign Man just published this chart today:

 

[troubled soul]

Biggest disadvantage of this type of Second passport holder seems fraudster or crook to any Government around the world.
Caribbean Passport program is biggest BS of the world. Most are crooks and fraud people that are using this program.
Sooner or later It will be abolish or Financial institute does not accept people with this passport.


Even today some bank does not accept resident of this country.
Like Barclay international bank does to accept any ot this country resident
They show you door.

Unfortunately, we can't help you today​

Based on the country that you live in or are moving to we are unable to provide you with our International Banking services. If your situation changes, we would be delighted to help you in the future.

Thank you for considering us.
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In 2022, It is not wise to buying this type of passport. You will regret sooner or later. Every youtuber promoting this type of joker passport . misguide you with purpose. Whatever BS they said do not believe them. Be careful .

Some USA crypto citizen denounce their "USA passport" to just save some Tax. They do not know what they are missing. It is very stupid to denounce passport "USA passport" to just save tax.
There is no shortage of fools in the world It seems.

This type of passport only makes sense when you hiding from law or do something illegal or government is after you or Russian Sanction list People

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...prefer-the-caribbean/articleshow/90481462.cms

Last edited: Apr 1, 2022

 

[Golden Fleece]

azb1 said:
Some USA crypto citizen denounce their "USA passport" to just save some Tax. They do not know what they are missing. It is very stupid to denounce passport "USA passport" to just save tax.
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I agree that it is foolish to give up the passport of your home country, whether U.S., EU, or otherwise. Life is all about maximizing your options -- and giving up any options is unwise.

On the other hand, I think that having a second citizenship, even a Caribbean one, is smart if you have the financial ability to do so. Again, life is all about options. The more options, the better. Always exercise caution and due diligence but Caribbean passports have had few problems.

For example, the St Kitts and Nevis CBI program was launched in 1984, making it the longest-running uninterrupted program of its kind in the world today. Since its establishment 38 years ago, the program has issued over 20,000 CBI passports to foreign applicants.

If Jihadi highjackers take over a plane, it is probably better to show them your Caribbean passport rather than your U.S. or UK passport.

 

[backpacker]

azb1 said:
Some USA crypto citizen denounce their "USA passport" to just save some Tax. They do not know what they are missing. It is very stupid to denounce passport "USA passport" to just save tax.
There is no shortage of fools in the world It seems.
Click to expand...

I fully agree: When it comes to an US passport that is indeed extremely foolish. Specifically since such a person will have to continue paying tax even after renouncing his/her US-citizenship, albeit for a limited time only (but crypto gains might be gone by then 😉).

When it comes to an EU passport: Well, such foolishness might at least be debatable.
There is not much value in an EU passport when you do not live there. COVID has shown that these EU countries even refuse to vaccinate their own citizens when they live abroad over an extended period of time.

Golden Fleece said:
If Jihadi highjackers take over a plane, it is probably better to show them your Caribbean passport rather than your U.S. or UK passport.
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This is mentioned all over. It doesn't get right just because of that.
These people are able to read! By opening page 1 of your Carribean CBI passport they know that you are not a real citizen of the nation of which you hold the passport.

 

[Golden Fleece]

Bagpacker said:
This is mentioned all over. It doesn't get right just because of that.
These people are able to read! By opening page 1 of your Carribean CBI passport they know that you are not a real citizen of the nation of which you hold the passport.
Click to expand...

First, the literacy rate in the Middle East is quite low. Second, they speak mainly Arabic or Farsi, where the letter characters look nothing at all like the Latin alphabet.

So, you have never watched any of the jet highjacker films, which documented real life events, where the highjackers could not even read English? lol. If they could read and think properly, they would know that Islam is a not a religion but an evil political doctrine of conquest and enslavement. In fact, Islam -- in large part -- relies upon the illiteracy and ignorance of its adherents.