Question Spaniard - Crypto - Exit strategy - 7 figures (Part 2)

[FreeBit]

gmbh said:
Do you have any source for this?

I got different info from local tax advisors. They said you can't be sure how you will be taxed, so worst case would be up to 35% income tax.
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Nop, just my advisor saying it.
One advisor said you can cashout longterm holding and pay 0%.
Other advisor said to create a company and pay 12,5% (which I would happily pay if I'm sure I can get a bank to accept my money). Not sure if they will even let me use that money for creating the company. Am I too paranoid?

What is stopping me to chose Dubai right away is the tax residency certificate. I'm concerned the motherfuckers of spanish tax agency will try to screw me

 

[FreeBit]

Fred said:
Even if you move forward you can keep the UAE scheme - they issue tax certificate after 1-2 years even if you don't live 180 days there.

Go for it.
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I need to see everything and know about everything before making any choice in the next days. So thanks in advance.

I buy a flight and get in Dubai with tourist visa for 90 days (that i get in the airport?)?
How long till I have the company and the resident visa for 2 persons done?
Then, once I want to cash out I start invoicing the company and sending the money to the bank account. but how? I haven't checked but I'm quite sure binance will only let me withdrawal to an account in my name. Not to a company's bank account. How to proceed? I move my binance account from personal account to corporate account? It might be better to create a new one right?
Another question. Let's say I'm interested in cash out 5M€.

I cashout that amount but after that I want all my money to have a clear track record. Meaning I want to cash out everything but once I have 5M€ the rest of the money will be directly used to buy btc again.

For that btc purchase I could create a new (holding) company in dubai or switzerland (second one preferable because I'll be later living there) and transfer that money to the bank account related to that company. Then transfer that money to binance account linked to the new swiss company and buy btc.

 

[FreeBit]

sorry, I just had to do this useless image, sometimes it help to picture the process...

 

[Fred]

FreeBit said:
sorry, I just had to do this useless image, sometimes it help to picture the process...
View attachment 2290
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Funny - you remember me of myself back in 2017.

If you want to cashout in this current bull market in 2021 you have to go out of your comfortzone.

Many people are not willing to do so and pay 40-50% tax beacuse of fear, some are just lazy.

We can have a personal call and I try to help you no matter what you do because with your current mood you get lost in theory.

You know from back in the days how fast Crypto can bubble and when you are not ready - well the buble doesn't wait till your setup is finish.

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[CaptK]

FreeBit said:
I need to see everything and know about everything before making any choice in the next days. So thanks in advance.

I buy a flight and get in Dubai with tourist visa for 90 days (that i get in the airport?)?
How long till I have the company and the resident visa for 2 persons done?
Then, once I want to cash out I start invoicing the company and sending the money to the bank account. but how? I haven't checked but I'm quite sure binance will only let me withdrawal to an account in my name. Not to a company's bank account. How to proceed? I move my binance account from personal account to corporate account? It might be better to create a new one right?
Another question. Let's say I'm interested in cash out 5M€.

I cashout that amount but after that I want all my money to have a clear track record. Meaning I want to cash out everything but once I have 5M€ the rest of the money will be directly used to buy btc again.

For that btc purchase I could create a new (holding) company in dubai or switzerland (second one preferable because I'll be later living there) and transfer that money to the bank account related to that company. Then transfer that money to binance account linked to the new swiss company and buy btc.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of buyer's in the UAE who will do an OTC transaction with you for maximum 5% but you can issue them an invoice and they can introduce you to the bank.

Because they are already a bank account holder and HNWI the bank are happy because they know the source of funds.

Then you can easily open other accounts in other banks. This is once you get your residency and ID card.

 

[tsu458]

gmbh said:
Do you have any source for this?

I got different info from local tax advisors. They said you can't be sure how you will be taxed, so worst case would be up to 35% income tax.
Click to expand...

In my experience, every advisor says something different. But I think we can rule out income tax for long term holdings? Say you sell BTC you are holding since 2017 for 50k and also got a cost-basis of 10k, I can't imagine these 40k would be taxed as income., worst case the 20% as with real estate. ns2

 

[Fred]

tsu458 said:
In my experience, every advisor says something different. But I think we can rule out income tax for long term holdings? Say you sell BTC you are holding since 2017 for 50k and also got a cost-basis of 10k, I can't imagine these 40k would be taxed as income., worst case the 20% as with real estate. ns2
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Every advisor on Cyprus says something different because on Cyprus is a huge difference between the written law and what is enforced in reality. Same like with Malta. As soon as we are talking about 7 figures they catch you and then you have to negotiate with them like on a turkish bazar.

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[gmbh]

tsu458 said:
In my experience, every advisor says something different. But I think we can rule out income tax for long term holdings? Say you sell BTC you are holding since 2017 for 50k and also got a cost-basis of 10k, I can't imagine these 40k would be taxed as income., worst case the 20% as with real estate. ns2
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Maybe, but I didn't mean long term holdings.

In the end we just don't know.

I think if you don't want to use the Dubai setup or something similar, the only way to be sure in Cyprus is to use a Cyprus Limited and pay 12,5% or to request a tax ruling. But even with a tax ruling I don't know if you can be really sure.

 

[Fred]

gmbh said:
Maybe, but I didn't mean long term holdings.

In the end we just don't know.

I think if you don't want to use the Dubai setup or something similar, the only way to be sure in Cyprus is to use a Cyprus Limited and pay 12,5% or to request a tax ruling. But even with a tax ruling I don't know if you can be really sure.
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Even then you have to deal with a Cyprus Bank with Crypto - Gameover!

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[tsu458]

Fred said:
Even then you have to deal with a Cyprus Bank with Crypto - Gameover!
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Yes! Fred, is it possible to setup the Dubai stuff as disccused in this thread, but still keep the cyprus tax residency? Like having a emirates visa but still spending 60, 183 or more days in cyprus. If not, would a local director give access to the banks in UAE, so it's not non-resident?

To maintain the 17 year non-dom status in cyprus, because I think it's worth a lot to have this in the next years.

 

[CaptK]

tsu458 said:
Yes! Fred, is it possible to setup the Dubai stuff as disccused in this thread, but still keep the cyprus tax residency? Like having a emirates visa but still spending 60, 183 or more days in cyprus. If not, would a local director give access to the banks in UAE, so it's not non-resident?

To maintain the 17 year non-dom status in cyprus, because I think it's worth a lot to have this in the next years.
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Yes that is possible, UAE don't care about your other residency so long as you obife by theirs.

 

[Fred]

tsu458 said:
Yes! Fred, is it possible to setup the Dubai stuff as disccused in this thread, but still keep the cyprus tax residency? Like having a emirates visa but still spending 60, 183 or more days in cyprus. If not, would a local director give access to the banks in UAE, so it's not non-resident?

To maintain the 17 year non-dom status in cyprus, because I think it's worth a lot to have this in the next years.
Click to expand...

Of course that's possible like @CaptK mentioned.

We have many clients that are still based on Cyprus but using the UAE as Crypto getaway.

Send me a PM and we can discuss anything further.

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[FreeBit]

CaptK said:
There are plenty of buyer's in the UAE who will do an OTC transaction with you for maximum 5% but you can issue them an invoice and they can introduce you to the bank.

Because they are already a bank account holder and HNWI the bank are happy because they know the source of funds.

Then you can easily open other accounts in other banks. This is once you get your residency and ID card.
Click to expand...

Now it makes sense. I'm glad you mentioned because something I really hate are hidden costs that noone mentions until you have no other route than to pay it.
Now, let's make some creative thinking here. What is gonna be the fee when the market is parabolic with a volatility of 15% each day?
If you're trying to cash out 7 figures, I'm guessing (probably I'm wrong) that the other side must be an educated investor. Are they gonna be buying the top?

tsu458 said:
In my experience, every advisor says something different. But I think we can rule out income tax for long term holdings? Say you sell BTC you are holding since 2017 for 50k and also got a cost-basis of 10k, I can't imagine these 40k would be taxed as income., worst case the 20% as with real estate. ns2
Click to expand...

Worst case scenario is to pay the 35% of income tax if you're a trader. If you just want sell your long term holding worst case scenario is 20% (which it shouldn't be).

gmbh said:
Maybe, but I didn't mean long term holdings.

In the end we just don't know.

I think if you don't want to use the Dubai setup or something similar, the only way to be sure in Cyprus is to use a Cyprus Limited and pay 12,5% or to request a tax ruling. But even with a tax ruling I don't know if you can be really sure.
Click to expand...

I think this is the most secure. Include all your assets in a company and pay 12,5% corporate tax. As long as you have legal funds there are some swiss cryptofriendly banks that after the AML/KYC are willing to accept your money. As far as I've learned, they use The Blockchain Analysis Company - Chainalysis to make a forensic background on your cryptos.

tsu458 said:
Yes! Fred, is it possible to setup the Dubai stuff as disccused in this thread, but still keep the cyprus tax residency? Like having a emirates visa but still spending 60, 183 or more days in cyprus. If not, would a local director give access to the banks in UAE, so it's not non-resident?

To maintain the 17 year non-dom status in cyprus, because I think it's worth a lot to have this in the next years.
Click to expand...

Guess that would be interesting if you're already a cyprus resident right? if not you can just spend 2 years in dubai and then move to cyprus. btw, if you're in cyprus and you spend 90 days working for your dubai company it's supposed to have to pay cyprus corporate taxes. Guess not having any accountability helps to avoid that rule

Fred said:
Of course that's possible like @CaptK mentioned.

We have many clients that are still based on Cyprus but using the UAE as Crypto getaway.

Send me a PM and we can discuss anything further.
Click to expand...

Fred, not being rude here, I just wanna know. You said you cash out in 2017? Why are you spending your time here trying to get clients to earn 7k€?
As said, not being rude. Just want to know what moves you

 

[Fred]

FreeBit said:
Now it makes sense. I'm glad you mentioned because something I really hate are hidden costs that noone mentions until you have no other route than to pay it.
Now, let's make some creative thinking here. What is gonna be the fee when the market is parabolic with a volatility of 15% each day?
If you're trying to cash out 7 figures, I'm guessing (probably I'm wrong) that the other side must be an educated investor. Are they gonna be buying the top?

Worst case scenario is to pay the 35% of income tax if you're a trader. If you just want sell your long term holding worst case scenario is 20% (which it shouldn't be).

I think this is the most secure. Include all your assets in a company and pay 12,5% corporate tax. As long as you have legal funds there are some swiss cryptofriendly banks that after the AML/KYC are willing to accept your money. As far as I've learned, they use The Blockchain Analysis Company - Chainalysis to make a forensic background on your cryptos.


Guess that would be interesting if you're already a cyprus resident right? if not you can just spend 2 years in dubai and then move to cyprus. btw, if you're in cyprus and you spend 90 days working for your dubai company it's supposed to have to pay cyprus corporate taxes. Guess not having any accountability helps to avoid that rule

Fred, not being rude here, I just wanna know. You said you cash out in 2017? Why are you spending your time here trying to get clients to earn 7k€?
As said, not being rude. Just want to know what moves you
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Passion - I'm to young to retire.

I love the contact with the people - to here the story and building a network.

The people like it as we charge super competitive prices - no rip off - made the money already.

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[ecool]

@FreeBit if you are Spanish and currently tax resident in Spain, forget about moving your tax residency to UAE.
Spain retains the Spanish tax residency for 4 years if you move to a tax haven. UAE is considered a tax haven for Spain.
You can read more about it here: Persona física residente en España - Agencia Tributaria

So you have to first move to a non-tax haven for Spain and then in the future move to UAE.

 

[FreeBit]

ecool said:
@FreeBit if you are Spanish and currently tax resident in Spain, forget about moving your tax residency to UAE.
Spain retains the Spanish tax residency for 4 years if you move to a tax haven. UAE is considered a tax haven for Spain.
You can read more about it here: Persona física residente en España - Agencia Tributaria

So you have to first move to a non-tax haven for Spain and then in the future move to UAE.
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Thanks for your concern but UAE is no longer considered a tax heaven since 2003
correct me if I'm wrong please

https://www.agenciatributaria.es/st...ios_generales/Lista_paraisos_fiscales_DGT.pdf

 

[ecool]

Thanks for your concern but UAE is no longer considered a tax heaven since 2003

FreeBit said:
correct me if I'm wrong please

https://www.agenciatributaria.es/st...ios_generales/Lista_paraisos_fiscales_DGT.pdf
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Looks like you are right. Since 2007 is out according to this link Anexo V. Paraísos fiscales - Agencia Tributaria

 

[Almouk]

FreeBit said:
Thanks for your concern but UAE is no longer considered a tax heaven since 2003
correct me if I'm wrong please

https://www.agenciatributaria.es/st...ios_generales/Lista_paraisos_fiscales_DGT.pdf
Click to expand...

Have you considered Georgia as a possibility? I have read here some threads and some people has been able to cash out.

 

[troubled soul]

Fred said:
You can stick to E-Commerce.

No Academic Degree or some special skills / education required.

In Dubai living so many kids doing 6-7 figures with E-Commerce / Dropshipping per month. It's normal nowadays.

Invest 30$ to setup a Shopify Shop - create unlimited orders and get some supplier names from AliExpress.

Doing an audit in Dubai is simply paying the fee for it - audit is just showing an overview of the account transfers.

I did it with the said bank, they event didn't required an audit - just bank statement.
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I do not get it .
How to convert crypto to shopify ecommerce.
Can you clarify more Crypto -> (Shopify unlimited order with aliexpress) -> bank account ?
How to do that ?
Without crypto tracing ?

 

[Fred]

azb1 said:
I do not get it .
How to convert crypto to shopify ecommerce.
Can you clarify more Crypto -> (Shopify unlimited order with aliexpress) -> bank account ?
How to do that ?
Without crypto tracing ?
Click to expand...

Can't mention something for free in respect to our already paying clients.

Thanks for your understanding.

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