300k in crypto (no proof of source). willing to pay taxes but afraid of money laundering accusations

[idontreallyknow27]

Hello everybody, the title basically says everything.

Let's assume we know someone who has 300.000€ in BTC, but this person can not provide a proof of source. This person lives in Europe and is even potentially willing to relocate.

What can this person do to exchange the crypto to fiat in a bank account in the EU?

It's not really a problem to exchange the BTC for cash. The person could just go to a crypto ATM and withdraw 10k daily with no questions asked
But how to get it into a bank account with no questions asked?

My ideas are the following:
setup a company in the EU with the real identity and setup another offshore company with darks and then write invoices to the company and get paid via the offshore companies EMI or even in crypto. But I feel like this is "obvious" too. They will probably find out sooner or later. I suppose they will assume that the company owners are one and the same person in the end. What do you think?

I also found this thread which is asking almost the same question:
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...-to-a-company-want-to-form-need-advice.32161/
Another thought I had was about relocating. Right now it's difficult because of the restrictions. But as far as I know it should be a lot easier to do this in country outside of EU. What are you recommendations? It would be best if this is on the European continent. No flights required

I saw someone in the basic forum suggesting that you could go to a bank in the Ukraine. They will ask no questions even if you deposit a higher amount. What else is possible and how secure is it? The scenario shouldnt be like: you're going to a sketchy back room, losing 300k and getting your head chopped off.

 

[pesto]

idontreallyknow27 said:
setup a company in the EU with the real identity and setup another offshore company with darks and then write invoices to the company and get paid via the offshore companies EMI or even in crypto.
Click to expand...

that works very well, 300K even EURO is not that much again. You can see lot's of threads inside mentor and in the public forums similar to yours.

Unless you find a service where you pay between 10 and 20% for them to handle the transaction you can do this setup and move the btc to fiat around.

I'm doing it for a year already.

 

[idontreallyknow27]

pesto said:
that works very well, 300K even EURO is not that much again. You can see lot's of threads inside mentor and in the public forums similar to yours.

Unless you find a service where you pay between 10 and 20% for them to handle the transaction you can do this setup and move the btc to fiat around.

I'm doing it for a year already.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? I mean, I don't have a doubt that it will work (in terms of getting the money into your account), but what if in maybe 10-15 years they'll do a background check on this and the country where the offshore company is located is compliant with the oecd by then. The fiscal authorities/police might be like "hm, this person has received 1.5 million from an offshore company in the last 5 years and the owners of the companies don't match. but could it be that the owner of the offshore company is not a real person?" and then they probably even have possibilities to check that. And then what? 300k is not that much, it's true. But assume you have done this with 2-3 million over the course of 10 years. what will they do if they have such assumptions? probably seize everything you have. house, car, freeze bank account

If it's that easy then there would not even be a need to get darks for such a thing. One could just get an IBC on the marshall islands and get paid. But it can't be that easy, the fiscal authorities are not dumb. Doing trades with an IBC or even LLC in the US in my country would be weird as hell. And the banks here sometimes even report you to the police if you deposit 2k cash into your account.

There probably is not a 100% secure option, but there must be ways to make this more secure.

Who has experience with this? I'm willing to pay crypto for good information

 

[pesto]

idontreallyknow27 said:
but what if in maybe 10-15 years they'll do a background check
Click to expand...

You will terminate the company after 2 years and no one is looking into it. It's not complicated with 300K euro you are over thinking this thing!

If you would have told me it was 3 million or 30M, 300M the story would have been different, that would make Switzerland, Bahamas, Georgia or even Delaware with substantial setups the only solution.

 

[idontreallyknow27]

pesto said:
You will terminate the company after 2 years and no one is looking into it. It's not complicated with 300K euro you are over thinking this thing!

If you would have told me it was 3 million or 30M, 300M the story would have been different, that would make Switzerland, Bahamas, Georgia or even Delaware with substantial setups the only solution.
Click to expand...

Yes, ok. I'm probably over thinking. What exactly can you recommend for this purpose? Let's say it's not 300k. Assume it's 900k in BTC and you're a citizien of Austria. And you want to transfer this crypto into fiat over the course of maybe 2-3 years. So 300k each year

Which setup would offer the highest plausible deniability in that case?
Points that I'm interested in:
1. Where exactly would you open the offshore company? There are cheap options in the US. Wyoming LLC or New Mexico. Do you think it's a good idea?
2. How often would you write an invoice and how big should the amounts be?
3. Would you exchange to fiat with the offshore company and then send from the EMI to the real bank account or transfer BTC and then exchange with the real account?
4. I read 'Cyprus' a couple of times now. Is it good to move the tax residency there to avoid being taxed that much?
5. Do you know an alternative to Cyprus in the EU, which doesn't require you to fly?

You would help me a lot, if you would answer these questions.

And last question:
How could one get a substantial setup for even higher amounts? How do you get the substance into the companies in such countries?

Thank you

 

[CaptK]

A cheap solution is only going to come back and bite you later.
Fly and open your account in person.
If I was in this situation I would relocate to the UAE, They have no restrictions currently especially for EU citizens.
Set up a company and obtain residency (takes 1 week), open a bank account and feed the account whilst living there. Rent is cheap right now in the nice areas.
There are plenty of buyers of coins in the UAE so you can get a payment from established companies and individuals there.
Then payments to your account are not scrutinized as they are local payments.

 

[idontreallyknow27]

CaptK said:
A cheap solution is only going to come back and bite you later.
Fly and open your account in person.
If I was in this situation I would relocate to the UAE, They have no restrictions currently especially for EU citizens.
Set up a company and obtain residency (takes 1 week), open a bank account and feed the account whilst living there. Rent is cheap right now in the nice areas.
There are plenty of buyers of coins in the UAE so you can get a payment from established companies and individuals there.
Then payments to your account are not scrutinized as they are local payments.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I was thinking too. Doing it cheaply and without relocating would take its revenge sooner or later. Writing invoices to a LLC in the US is sketchy as hell

 

[freeroamdev]

CaptK said:
A cheap solution is only going to come back and bite you later.
Fly and open your account in person.
If I was in this situation I would relocate to the UAE, They have no restrictions currently especially for EU citizens.
Set up a company and obtain residency (takes 1 week), open a bank account and feed the account whilst living there. Rent is cheap right now in the nice areas.
There are plenty of buyers of coins in the UAE so you can get a payment from established companies and individuals there.
Then payments to your account are not scrutinized as they are local payments.
Click to expand...

via OTC wire (localbitcoins)? what will the legal status of that money look like? Last time I checked crypto cashouts still need an invoice to support source of funds, or will they simply not care for that amount of money?

 

[Dandyline]

idontreallyknow27 said:
Hello everybody, the title basically says everything.

Let's assume we know someone who has 300.000€ in BTC, but this person can not provide a proof of source. This person lives in Europe and is even potentially willing to relocate.

What can this person do to exchange the crypto to fiat in a bank account in the EU?

It's not really a problem to exchange the BTC for cash. The person could just go to a crypto ATM and withdraw 10k daily with no questions asked
But how to get it into a bank account with no questions asked?

My ideas are the following:
setup a company in the EU with the real identity and setup another offshore company with darks and then write invoices to the company and get paid via the offshore companies EMI or even in crypto. But I feel like this is "obvious" too. They will probably find out sooner or later. I suppose they will assume that the company owners are one and the same person in the end. What do you think?

I also found this thread which is asking almost the same question:
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...-to-a-company-want-to-form-need-advice.32161/
Another thought I had was about relocating. Right now it's difficult because of the restrictions. But as far as I know it should be a lot easier to do this in country outside of EU. What are you recommendations? It would be best if this is on the European continent. No flights required

I saw someone in the basic forum suggesting that you could go to a bank in the Ukraine. They will ask no questions even if you deposit a higher amount. What else is possible and how secure is it? The scenario shouldnt be like: you're going to a sketchy back room, losing 300k and getting your head chopped off.
Click to expand...

Just say that you bought the coins 10 years ago and it rose in value. And now you want to cash out.

Make sure to have a zero tax residency.

 

[freeroamdev]

Dandyline said:
Just say that you bought the coins 10 years ago and it rose in value. And now you want to cash out.

Make sure to have a zero tax residency.
Click to expand...

are you trolling? do you have any experience with cashing out crypto in uae (at least mid 5 figures)? I assume they will need proof for source of funds if you cash out to your bank account from an exchange

 

[LondonOTC]

As other people said, 300k is not a big sum to worry about. It you are happy to pay taxes, get somebody to pay you invoices for crypto and voilà!

 

[freeroamdev]

LondonOTC said:
As other people said, 300k is not a big sum to worry about. It you are happy to pay taxes, get somebody to pay you invoices for crypto and voilà!
Click to expand...

Specifically for UAE banks? Because in EU having 300k in a bank topped-up via wire payment/cash deposit will trigger all sorts of checks. Even if you structure it in 10 20k-30k payments, even stretched for a year that will still raise red flags.

UAE won't ask for invoices if you start getting 6 fig cash to your fresh account?

 

[CaptK]

freeroamdev said:
via OTC wire (localbitcoins)? what will the legal status of that money look like? Last time I checked crypto cashouts still need an invoice to support source of funds, or will they simply not care for that amount of money?
Click to expand...

Depends on who is paying you. If it's an established UAE company or from an Emirati then they don't bother you.

For your own sake get an invoice, just incase they ask if you return back home.

 

[Dandyline]

freeroamdev said:
are you trolling? do you have any experience with cashing out crypto in uae (at least mid 5 figures)? I assume they will need proof for source of funds if you cash out to your bank account from an exchange
Click to expand...

freeroamdev said:
are you trolling? do you have any experience with cashing out crypto in uae (at least mid 5 figures)? I assume they will need proof for source of funds if you cash out to your bank account from an exchange
Click to expand...

Source of funds is trading. You earn money on crypto trading and then cash out.

I dont think any bank would care if its a business account.

I mean just setup a crypto trading company in Dubai, cash out earnings to the business account and then pay out everything as salary to your private account.

Last edited: Jan 28, 2021

 

[freeroamdev]

Dandyline said:
Source of funds is trading. You earn money on crypto trading and then cash out.

I dont think any bank would care if its a business account.

I mean just setup a crypto trading company in Dubai, cash out earnings to the business account and then pay out everything as salary to your private account.
Click to expand...

Dandyline said:
I mean just setup a crypto trading company in Dubai,
Click to expand...

I simply have a hard time believing it's easy to just arrive to UAE and incorporate a FZ company as a non-resident without connections or A LOT of actual fiat on your hands already. Let alone a crypto trading company. @CaptK Am I wrong? It seems that you're quite knowledgeable on that topic

 

[Dandyline]

freeroamdev said:
I simply have a hard time believing it's easy to just arrive to UAE and incorporate a FZ company as a non-resident without connections or A LOT of actual fiat on your hands already. Let alone a crypto trading company. @CaptK Am I wrong? It seems that you're quite knowledgeable on that topic
Click to expand...

Its very easy to setup a free zone company, you can do it from your kitchen table within 24 hours.

Then you can fix residency within 3 weeks, just as easy.

It's fairly known.

 

[CaptK]

freeroamdev said:
I simply have a hard time believing it's easy to just arrive to UAE and incorporate a FZ company as a non-resident without connections or A LOT of actual fiat on your hands already. Let alone a crypto trading company. @CaptK Am I wrong? It seems that you're quite knowledgeable on that topic
Click to expand...

As the saying goes "money talks and bulls**t walks".
If on day one you have at least $150K I can walk you into the bank and get an account open. There is even s way to withdraw nearly all of it 95% approximately 2 weeks after you put it in.

If you cash the Fiat out in Dubai via OTC from a resident individual or company of substance. It's a walk in the park.

Dandyline said:
Its very easy to setup a free zone company, you can do it from your kitchen table within 24 hours.

Then you can fix residency within 3 weeks, just as easy.

It's fairly known.
Click to expand...

It can be done in 3-4 days working days Sunday-Thursday.

Day one
Bloods and biometrics
Day 2 visa change
Day 3
ID card.

 

[Dandyline]

CaptK said:
As the saying goes "money talks and bulls**t walks".
If on day one you have at least $150K I can walk you into the bank and get an account open. There is even s way to withdraw nearly all of it 95% approximately 2 weeks after you put it in.

If you cash the Fiat out in Dubai via OTC from a resident individual or company of substance. It's a walk in the park.

It can be done in 3-4 days working days Sunday-Thursday.

Day one
Bloods and biometrics
Day 2 visa change
Day 3
ID card.
Click to expand...

Yes, im sure. Even though, most freezones I've been talking to lately says around 3 weeks.

5 days to receive the licence
1 week visa status change
1-2 weeks residence

 

[troubled soul]

Dandyline said:
Yes, im sure. Even though, most freezones I've been talking to lately says around 3 weeks.

5 days to receive the licence
1 week visa status change
1-2 weeks residence
Click to expand...

There is an express service. If you want things done fast.
But it has a cost for it. Normal and Express.

CaptK said:
A cheap solution is only going to come back and bite you later.
Fly and open your account in person.
If I was in this situation I would relocate to the UAE, They have no restrictions currently especially for EU citizens.
Set up a company and obtain residency (takes 1 week), open a bank account and feed the account whilst living there. Rent is cheap right now in the nice areas.
There are plenty of buyers of coins in the UAE so you can get a payment from established companies and individuals there.
Then payments to your account are not scrutinized as they are local payments.
Click to expand...

Can not agree more

 

[digirider]

CaptK said:
If you cash the Fiat out in Dubai via OTC from a resident individual or company of substance. It's a walk in the park.
Click to expand...

What are reputable OTC desks in Dubai? How to connect with them?