Cash out profits from an offshore company in a zero income tax country?

[Martin Everson]

JackAlabama said:
Swiss banks are a compliance hell these days. It seems they want to make up all the past years by being overly compliant and opening their legs widely for the borg.
Be prepared for a lot of questions when dealing with any country deemed "suspicious". And that category is broad and wide lol.
This is especially true for non residents there.
Click to expand...

Yes its a pain in the a*s. I bank with several Swiss banks for decades. One of the banks I used has to get approval from a director level person within the bank for signoff for any outgoing payment more than 1m chf. Oh and absolutely anything can alert their suspicion and put your account under compliance review.

Toggle signature
Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[melzvy]

JackAlabama said:
Let me pls know how you want to transport physical gold to the country of your choice? Anything more than a few coins and you get fd up for sure. Prepare all your docs.
I would prefer a wire than handling phys gold.
Click to expand...

yeap, I got your point and is very valid...

with my comment you may be exchanging the problems with banks to the problems with logistics and shipping, it depends on your connections, knowledge, etc....

this is one way of multiple choices that some corrupted politicians steal money in Latin America, they convert it into gold and ship it in private rented airplanes to the destination "hidden", they may also need to bribe people in customs in both sides.
Just put attention on how many Venezuelan families owns real state in some of the richest areas of Spain and they sell it after 1 or more years.

 

[JackAlabama]

melzvy said:
yeap, I got your point and is very valid...

with my comment you may be exchanging the problems with banks to the problems with logistics and shipping, it depends on your connections, knowledge, etc....

this is one way of multiple choices that some corrupted politicians steal money in Latin America, they convert it into gold and ship it in private rented airplanes to the destination "hidden", they may also need to bribe people in customs in both sides.
Just put attention on how many Venezuelan families owns real state in some of the richest areas of Spain and they sell it after 1 or more years.
Click to expand...

That can surely work. But it looks to me like some pretty heavy lifting.

 

[gmbh]

Thank you all very much.

I think I can't sleep well if I use the Belize because maybe it will work but maybe my Bitcoins are "blacklisted" in some years and then my tax to pay is 100% or I can only spend the Bitcoins in countries nobody wants to live, but probably not even there, because nobody wants Bitcoins there. And I think governments will not stop until they can control where and if I buy a can of coke anywhere. So with crap like AML5 for example it's even difficult to proof the source of Bitcoins when you bought them legally.

Look for example here:
https://support.bitpanda.com/hc/en-...s-and-what-requirements-and-limits-are-there-

Accepted proof for cryptocurrency funds​

We need a detailed description of the origin of all of the coins on your account via our contact form, as well as for at least one of the following documents to be attached:

• Cryptocurrencies purchased on other brokers and other exchanges
  • Screenshots of purchase and withdrawal confirmation displaying your account ID and all transaction details
  • Confirmation emails which provide proof of purchase or withdrawal
  • Receipts which provide proof of purchase (e.g. using an OTC)

Click to expand...

I just hope that other exchanges will not ask for this. Otherwise a lot of people can't use their Bitcoins anymore. How can anyone proof this if you bought your coins on exchanges that don't exist anymore or if you deleted your accounts for example. I think you can't.

So sadly I will pay 12,5% to the government for locking me up and to force a vaccination on me.

 

[Martin Everson]

gmbh said:
I just hope that other exchanges will not ask for this.
Click to expand...

They all will soon.

gmbh said:
Otherwise a lot of people can't use their Bitcoins anymore.
Click to expand...

That's the plan thu&¤#

Toggle signature
Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[gmbh]

Martin Everson said:
They all will soon.
Click to expand...

At least until now it is even possible to trade completely without any verification, even without any withdrawal limits at Bybit for example.

So let's hope the EU falls apart before they forced all exchanges to do this. Furthermore, decentralized exchanges are becoming more popular.

Martin Everson said:
That's the plan thu&¤#
Click to expand...

Probably yes...

 

[Bandito]

gmbh said:
I just hope that other exchanges will not ask for this. Otherwise a lot of people can't use their Bitcoins anymore. How can anyone proof this if you bought your coins on exchanges that don't exist anymore or if you deleted your accounts for example. I think you can't.
Click to expand...

Why not use a decentralized exchange, crypto is supposed to be free and without regulations so use the freedom you have with crypto.

https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/dex/

 

[Martin Everson]

Bandito said:
Why not use a decentralized exchange, crypto is supposed to be free and without regulations so use the freedom you have with crypto.
Click to expand...

Do any of these DEX's offer conversation to fiat as thats the issue here?

Toggle signature
Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[gmbh]

Martin Everson said:
Do any of these DEX's offer conversation to fiat as thats the issue here?
Click to expand...

Seems we misunderstood each other. Probably my wording "cash out" was bad.

My issue is just to get the Bitcoins (legally) from the "company wallet" to my "private wallet". I am not interested in conversation to fiat.

 

[Martin Everson]

gmbh said:
My issue is just to get the Bitcoins (legally) from the "company wallet" to my "private wallet". I am not interested in conversation to fiat.
Click to expand...

Ok understood. But in that case its just a case of liquidating the company to get assets into your name when eventually you are in a zero income tax country.

Toggle signature
Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[nomad999]

After you have the bitcoin in your name, find a way to buy gold or whatever else using bitcoin and then sell it for FIAT, now buy back crypto with FIAT and then you have all the paperwork to satisfy the AML bulls**t. I would guess the cost would be below 5% but could be wrong, much less than 12% i am sure.

Also I am pretty sure you could move your company to a more reputable jurisdiction with auditing requirements and get the bitcoin to your name from there with documentation that would satisfy AML crap, without paying much in taxes, only a bit of fees in accountants/lawyers.
Probably dubai is your best bet, maybe some south east asia countries could also be interesting.

 

[Bandito]

Martin Everson said:
Do any of these DEX's offer conversation to fiat as thats the issue here?
Click to expand...

Never use a exchange for FIAT conversion that's the most stupid thing to do, find a reliable person in real life and sell to him instead.

Crypto is supposed to be P2P, if we use normal exchanges we get the exact same problems as we do with banks.


Decentralized exchanges, Stable coins and Cash in hand deals is completely unregulated as crypto is deisgned to be.

 

[Martin Everson]

Bandito said:
Never use a exchange for FIAT conversion that's the most stupid thing to do, find a reliable person in real life and sell to him instead.
Click to expand...

Do you think I could have found a reliable person to sell to them 800 BTC @ 13k in 2017 instead of using an exchange? Or even if I still had the crypto to sell to them now and get money on my account without compliance issues?

Toggle signature
Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[equityone]

JackAlabama said:
Let me pls know how you want to transport physical gold to the country of your choice? Anything more than a few coins and you get fd up for sure. Prepare all your docs.
I would prefer a wire than handling phys gold.
Click to expand...

I guess his idea was to make the conversion in house and having the sum sent by wire eventually, regardless if the amount is considerate x example “bullions” not just a couple of coins there are plenty of secured transport providers with insurance and GDC's that can transport it your end coordinates but I doubt that was the original OP's inquiry.

Nevertheless there are different ways that would keep things under the radar and not even make it known that you own that Belize account in the first place, but same as for CY taxes, it would be accompanied by fees to make the proper conversions and transmissions.

 

[gmbh]

equityone said:
Nevertheless there are different ways that would keep things under the radar and not even make it known that you own that Belize account in the first place, but same as for CY taxes, it would be accompanied by fees to make the proper conversions and transmissions.
Click to expand...

If I never report to the Cypriot tax authorities that I am a director of the Belize company and never declare that the company pay dividends to me they would probably never find out. But I want a legal way to get the funds out of the company, otherwise I won't have a good sleep again. My risk tolerance is very low. gre¤#!

 

[Bandito]

Martin Everson said:
Do you think I could have found a reliable person to sell to them 800 BTC @ 13k in 2017 instead of using an exchange? Or even if I still had the crypto to sell to them now and get money on my account without compliance issues?
Click to expand...

With 800 BTC you could surely afford relocation and advice from a crypto advisor to get everything right and tax free.

 

[equityone]

gmbh said:
If I never report to the Cypriot tax authorities that I am a director of the Belize company and never declare that the company pay dividends to me they would probably never find out. But I want a legal way to get the funds out of the company, otherwise I won't have a good sleep again. My risk tolerance is very low. gre¤#!
Click to expand...

My suggestion was just a caveat, not implying to dwell into anything illegal, since the result would be the same thing, receiving your end payment also having to probably pay income taxes, but retouching the source of your income as to keep your original source that in your case is the Belize company discreet for as long as you'd wish so...

Can transfer crypto to a company/exchange and receive the discounted share of funds by fiat wire to any coordinate, with an additional income justification, as a freelancer or a contractor to “X” company, all legal and with full kyc/docs.

Additionally can even swap fractions or all of your deposits for gold be it physical gold vaulted in Luxembourg/Liechtenstein insured by Lloyds London with accompanying GDC, or even digital gold certificates that you can hedge and exchange seamlessly for fiat/crypto all over again depending on your needs and market conditions.

 

[equityone]

equityone said:
My suggestion was just a caveat, not implying to dwell into anything illegal, since the result would be the same thing, receiving your end payment also having to probably pay income taxes, but retouching the source of your income as to keep your original source that in your case is the Belize company discreet for as long as you'd wish so...

Can transfer crypto to a company/exchange and receive the discounted share of funds by fiat wire to any coordinate, with an additional income justification, as a freelancer or a contractor to “X” company, all legal and with full kyc/docs.

Additionally can even swap fractions or all of your deposits for gold be it physical gold vaulted in Luxembourg/Liechtenstein insured by Lloyds London with accompanying GDC, or even digital gold certificates that you can hedge and exchange seamlessly for fiat/crypto all over again depending on your needs and market conditions.
Click to expand...

The end beneficiary can even be a company itself, as long as you'd be the UBO/director, in any jurisdiction that you'd deem as effective tax wise, in other words you'd be paying yourself from the Belize to your 2nd company resulting paying yourself as a physical person or receiving the dividends from it directly but by eliminating Belize-Crypto-Trading being the origin of the funds, I don't know if it makes sense...

 

[Martin Everson]

Bandito said:
With 800 BTC you could surely afford relocation and advice from a crypto advisor to get everything right and tax free.
Click to expand...

I have lived tax free in Caribbean for ages. I was being sarcastic...lol. I want to know a man on the street that would have bought 800 btc and put cash in my account without compliance issue.

Toggle signature
Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[Dandyline]

gmbh said:
The real need to do this for me is If I want to buy a house for example, I assume it would be a lot easier to buy it with funds in my name than in the name of a Belize company? I assume it is not possible at all to buy real estate or other expensive things with a Belize company?

Which law do you mean regarding the end of minimum taxation? And why should this have an impact of taxation in Belize?


I asked several banks for a bank account and all denied it, even with my high net worth. I guess it is impossible to get a bank account for a Belize company which does crypto trading, at least at a traditional bank.

I would pay out the dividends in Bitcoin when I live in a zero tax income country. I think you are right that it would be difficult to find a bank which accept dividends in EUR or USD from a Belize company.

Yes the alternative is to trade with a Cyprus Limited but then I have to pay 12,5% taxes on all profits the company generates. If I would use a Cyprus Limited I would only need a bank account to sell 12,5% of all profits I make in Bitcoin against EUR to pay the taxes. I don't want to sell Bitcoin against EUR for my own expenses. So I would never have a big amount of money in the bank account. I have it in Bitcoin all the time. Apart from the money I need to pay the taxes.
Click to expand...

1. Transfer the bitcoins to your personal
wallet

2. Dump the Belize company

3. Get residency in a zero tax country

4. Cash out / do what you want

I don't understand the issue.