New Offshore with 100% Anonymacy | Paypal + EMI ?

[Ineo]

Hi guys,

Just signed up to the forum after reading through some posts in the last few days trying to figure what would be the best setup for my specific case , hope someone can help 🙂

So here's my goals and situation :

1) I want to setup a company that will protect me against lawsuits as an individual and that does not disclosure my name in any circumnstances in case a law suit is filed against the company .
From what I've been reading a Belize LLC with director and shareholder nominees (do I need both by the way ?) would work fine for my use case .

2) There is nothing ilegal about the business but due to its nature I may risk to get a lawsuit from a very big company and I want to take the appropriate measures to protect myself as much as possible !

3) I will need to setup a paypal in the name of the company that doesn't disclosure my personal name or any information, can a Nominee director provide the documentation to create a paypal on his behalf in case government id is required ?
I know I could setup a proxy paypal with fake name etc. but my goal here is not to evade taxes and much less to have an illegal paypal with stolen documents associated to my company! Also I don't see the point for having a company registered and go this route, if I
wanted to use stealth paypals I'd rather not have a company registered at all and just operate with a virtual office for address .

4) Can I get an EMI like payoneer etc registered on the company name instead of personal name ?


So to sum it up, can I get the anonymacy I am looking for with this setup? Belize LLC w/ shareholder and director nominees + Paypal with EMI Iban ?


Thanks !

 

[James Turner]

Hi,

It is definitely possible to create a Belize Company and create anonymity by using Nominee Directors and Shareholders or Trust or Foundation Shareholders if more complexity is needed.

Personally, I do not deal with Paypal, so would look into the Paypal connectivity more, but I fear that Paypal may not like the Belize location, or indeed the location that banking will need to be in maintain the privacy of the Belize Company. Identifying a Nominee is not an issue if that is all that is needed for Paypal.

Likewise banking arrangement for a Belize Company created in this format is not an issue and this can be arranged with EMI's or with actual banks.

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[Ineo]

James Turner said:
Hi,

It is definitely possible to create a Belize Company and create anonymity by using Nominee Directors and Shareholders or Trust or Foundation Shareholders if more complexity is needed.

Personally, I do not deal with Paypal, so would look into the Paypal connectivity more, but I fear that Paypal may not like the Belize location, or indeed the location that banking will need to be in maintain the privacy of the Belize Company. Identifying a Nominee is not an issue if that is all that is needed for Paypal.

Likewise banking arrangement for a Belize Company created in this format is not an issue and this can be arranged with EMI's or with actual banks.
Click to expand...

@James Turner thanks for the helpful insights !

So if I need to register a paypal associated with the company name providing the nominees identification is not an issue ? I think in that case I could just use a virtual office address in UK / US or whatever (since those provide utility bills as well) and register the business paypal in US / UK associated to the company + any EMI to add a US bank account to cash out ?

Don't think the paypal needs to be from Belize, which I understand creates problems and results in lower transactions limits .

 

[user9823671]

Ineo said:
Hi guys,

Just signed up to the forum after reading through some posts in the last few days trying to figure what would be the best setup for my specific case , hope someone can help 🙂

So here's my goals and situation :

1) I want to setup a company that will protect me against lawsuits as an individual and that does not disclosure my name in any circumnstances in case a law suit is filed against the company .
From what I've been reading a Belize LLC with director and shareholder nominees (do I need both by the way ?) would work fine for my use case .
Click to expand...

I am not a legal expert, nor know anything about Belize law. But from what I understand, you cannot be completely protected against law suits. I imagine you want to do this on the cheap as well? If so, ask yourself why the agent who set this up / the nominees used would protect you for a couple of hundred bucks a year in licensing fees? Belize is a country of laws, if a lawsuit is brought against you there, a cheap nominee structure is not going to protect you

2) There is nothing ilegal about the business but due to its nature I may risk to get a lawsuit from a very big company and I want to take the appropriate measures to protect myself as much as possible !
Click to expand...

You say it is not illegal, are you sure? Or is it grey area? The big company (with many lawyers and big pockets at hand) may think it is illegal. In a country such as belize, do you not think they could pay the right people. Belize is a country of laws, but it is also belize.

As I said, I don't know how all this works, sure a company in belize with no public register protects privacy some what, if someone does get access (for what ever reason) then nominees will protect you somewhat. But if someone has gone that far, then why would they stop? To get a court order against the nominees means at first hint of trouble they releaes your name. Here I think as JamesTurner said a trust is beneficial so is an extra protection, but again, how does that protect you against someone who has come this far? A trust doesn't protect you against breaking the law (regardless of whether you don't think it is).

Again, maybe if your strucutre was costing you $50k+ a year they might be more inclined to fight for you, but for a cheap belize structure for a few hundred? No one is going to die on their sword for you for a pittance.

Maybe others have experience of this?
Or have some actual legal knowledge of how this works.
Just be careful and be aware of exactly what is being done and how it will help in what circumstances, because I think if a very big company comes after you and are determined (that is probably key) there isn't much protection

 

[user9823671]

Ineo said:
So if I need to register a paypal associated with the company name providing the nominees identification is not an issue ?
Click to expand...

IT will be an issue trying to open a paypal business account for a belize company with nominees with a bank in a different country. And by an issue, I mean next to impossible. Many posts on the forum saying a belize company is not possible to get a paypal account these days (beware old posts saying a belize IBC with cyprus banks work - these are old posts and subsequent posts say this no longer works)

I think in that case I could just use a virtual office address in UK / US or whatever (since those provide utility bills as well) and register the business paypal in US / UK associated to the company + any EMI to add a US bank account to cash out ?

Don't think the paypal needs to be from Belize, which I understand creates problems and results in lower transactions limits .
Click to expand...

So you want to have a belize company
With a virtual office address in the UK / US.
You want to register hte business in uk / us (although is a belize company)
You want to use an EMI / US bank account.
You want the nominee to sigh all this up for you (so they have full access)
And you as the UBO are from where?


Belize being a tax haven with strong privacy, think about it from paypals point of, doesn't this scream of something dodgy? tax evasion as best. I think your best bet is to try and call paypal and just ask them if this is acceptable, I highly doubt it will be

 

[Ineo]

user9823671 said:
I am not a legal expert, nor know anything about Belize law. But from what I understand, you cannot be completely protected against law suits. I imagine you want to do this on the cheap as well? If so, ask yourself why the agent who set this up / the nominees used would protect you for a couple of hundred bucks a year in licensing fees? Belize is a country of laws, if a lawsuit is brought against you there, a cheap nominee structure is not going to protect you


You say it is not illegal, are you sure? Or is it grey area? The big company (with many lawyers and big pockets at hand) may think it is illegal. In a country such as belize, do you not think they could pay the right people. Belize is a country of laws, but it is also belize.

As I said, I don't know how all this works, sure a company in belize with no public register protects privacy some what, if someone does get access (for what ever reason) then nominees will protect you somewhat. But if someone has gone that far, then why would they stop? To get a court order against the nominees means at first hint of trouble they releaes your name. Here I think as JamesTurner said a trust is beneficial so is an extra protection, but again, how does that protect you against someone who has come this far? A trust doesn't protect you against breaking the law (regardless of whether you don't think it is).

Again, maybe if your strucutre was costing you $50k+ a year they might be more inclined to fight for you, but for a cheap belize structure for a few hundred? No one is going to die on their sword for you for a pittance.

Maybe others have experience of this?
Or have some actual legal knowledge of how this works.
Just be careful and be aware of exactly what is being done and how it will help in what circumstances, because I think if a very big company comes after you and are determined (that is probably key) there isn't much protection
Click to expand...

Thanks bud this is some really helpful feedback!

I don't expect to be completed protected against law suits but the main goals here are to make things harder and also to protect myself as an individual, so the lawsuit can only be brought against the company but not interfere with my personal responsability .

And ofcourse I also expect an extra layer of privacy so that my name would not be disclosed unless there was an international court order which deemed so !

I guess you could say it's a gray area (data scraping) but only because some big companies are basically leveraging a bulls**t law (Trespass to Chattels) and claiming 10 requests per second are impairing their servers which support millions and millions of requests!

After reading your post I'm wondering if it even makes any sense to get an offshore for my situation lol . I was under the impression it could add some protection both in terms of privacy and liability but am not so sure anymore ...

user9823671 said:
IT will be an issue trying to open a paypal business account for a belize company with nominees with a bank in a different country. And by an issue, I mean next to impossible. Many posts on the forum saying a belize company is not possible to get a paypal account these days (beware old posts saying a belize IBC with cyprus banks work - these are old posts and subsequent posts say this no longer works)



So you want to have a belize company
With a virtual office address in the UK / US.
You want to register hte business in uk / us (although is a belize company)
You want to use an EMI / US bank account.
You want the nominee to sigh all this up for you (so they have full access)
And you as the UBO are from where?


Belize being a tax haven with strong privacy, think about it from paypals point of, doesn't this scream of something dodgy? tax evasion as best. I think your best bet is to try and call paypal and just ask them if this is acceptable, I highly doubt it will be
Click to expand...

So having an offshore belize company business paypal registered with UK address is not a possibility?

I think I can verify the paypal just with virtual office / EMI but the problems will come later when certain limits have been exceeded and they eventually will ask for government id veritifcation and company documentation .


I actually wanna pay my taxes despite having the company registered as an offshore (which I'm also not sure how to go about since I have no company registered where I live) but this all so confusing 😵

Last edited: Apr 8, 2020

 

[user9823671]

Ineo said:
I don't expect to be completed protected against law suits but the main goals here are to make things harder and also to protect myself as an individual, so the lawsuit can only be brought against the company but not interfere with my personal responsability .
Click to expand...

then this is possible regardless of privacy. The company will limit your personal liability. Again others will know more what this means *EXACTLY*

And ofcourse I also expect an extra layer of privacy so that my name would not be disclosed unless there was an international court order which deemed so !
Click to expand...

It would not need an international court order. Just a local belize court order.

I guess you could say it's a gray area (data scraping) but only because some big companies are basically leveraging a bulls**t law (Trespass to Chattels) and claiming 10 requests per second are impairing their servers which support millions and millions of requests!
Click to expand...

Wasn't there a case recently of someone against linkedin that came out on the side of the scrapers? As long as the information is public, it was deemed ok (grey area if you need to login / use accounts I believe)

After reading your post I'm wondering if it even makes any sense to get an offshore for my situation lol . I was under the impression it could add some protection both in terms of privacy and liability but am not so sure anymore ...
Click to expand...

privacy yes over for example a UK company where your information is public. Liability protection I guess is about same. But it will not stop a determined entity from trying to sue you from what I understand. It will make it more difficult for them sure. Depends how determined they are.

So having an offshore belize company business paypal registered with UK address is not a possibility?
Click to expand...

I doubt it. Call them. But they may want to know why you are not using a UK company if that is the address. Why would you? Unless you want evading tax, doing something dodgy.

 

[uplana]

Can be archieved with darks and stealth PayPal account, you need to invest some time to research your options and then get it setup. I would suggest a darks setup in front of a normal setup. You use the dark company setup as a shield to protect your real business activities behind in another normal company structure that may be setup in Belize with nominees.

I will go right now and explain it all in details inside the mentor group to avoid any forum rules violation.

Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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[Ineo]

uplana said:
Can be archieved with darks and stealth PayPal account, you need to invest some time to research your options and then get it setup. I would suggest a darks setup in front of a normal setup. You use the dark company setup as a shield to protect your real business activities behind in another normal company structure that may be setup in Belize with nominees.

I will go right now and explain it all in details inside the mentor group to avoid any forum rules violation.
Click to expand...

What you are basically saying is that I could setup a fake and non existing proxy company in front of the real one right ?

Thanks for the suggestion but that would be ilegal, meaning if a big company wants to come at me with a lawsuit I would be getting in a lot more trouble than I bargained for ...

Not even gonna mention taking credit card payments would be out of question with this ... If I wanted to fake a company I wouldn't need to setup an offshore to make things legit in the first place ! Am I missing something here ?

 

[clemens]

Ineo said:
Thanks for the suggestion but that would be ilegal, meaning if a big company wants to come at me with a lawsuit I would be getting in a lot more trouble than I bargained for ...
Click to expand...

Good then it's out of question and not feasible for your needs, setup something legit and get suite

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2020
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One of my favorit articles in Mentor Group ~ Sending money anonymously archieve Financial Anonymity

 

[user9823671]

uplana said:
Can be archieved with darks and stealth PayPal account, you need to invest some time to research your options and then get it setup. I would suggest a darks setup in front of a normal setup. You use the dark company setup as a shield to protect your real business activities behind in another normal company structure that may be setup in Belize with nominees.

I will go right now and explain it all in details inside the mentor group to avoid any forum rules violation.
Click to expand...

I think it would be wise to state this is highly illegal and fraudulent as well as "potentially" effective. But it is not without it's own issues. Paypal are not some tinpot small processor and often what further verification, especially once you start pushing a bit of volume (not even that much). If you are unable to provide what they request, you lose your account and funds. Maybe is effective if you are trying to run some small dodgy business, but not for anything serious / substantial IMO.

 

[Ineo]

user9823671 said:
I think it would be wise to state this is highly illegal and fraudulent as well as "potentially" effective. But it is not without it's own issues. Paypal are not some tinpot small processor and often what further verification, especially once you start pushing a bit of volume (not even that much). If you are unable to provide what they request, you lose your account and funds. Maybe is effective if you are trying to run some small dodgy business, but not for anything serious / substantial IMO.
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Exactly ! I know how such setups work but it would most definitely not be the right option for something that, as I have stated, may draw attention of some big sharks . Running this as a stealth operation would be suicidal and a sure way to get subpoenaed in 1 year or so . This would be good for maybe a short term thing where one can take some fast profits and move ...

I am still inclined to go with Belize Corp or anything else alternatively , main concern being being able to get a business verified paypal (not necessarly in the company name ?) .

I guess I could tackle this paypal thing by getting some middleman or even buying a full verified account (as long as this doesn't envolve document fraud) while still declaring my taxes at my country . If anything comes up I can just say I hired someone to handle the payments , would this be a problem ?

Is there any other setup that doesn't cost a fortune and which would be good to go with a paypal registered in the company name?

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2020

 

[user9823671]

I have read on the forums a seychelles setup allows you to get a transferwise account. A forum member @happyjohn stated he got a paypal account recently with a seychelles mobile number. However not sure what setup that was exactly as didn't come back with further details.

Fact is, there are no definites. Read the forum and you will see one user post "I got bank account XYZ for my ABC corp" but another comes along and said "that doesn't work for me".
Seychelles is comparable to Belize (no public register, 0%tax, low reputation. You can use nominees for an extra level of protection, then and or trusts for another layer of protection. But how well this protects you against law suites, I honestly have no idea. For that you may want to speak to a local lawyer (and pay for their time any free advice should be assumed that they are planning on selling you something and you are the product).


IF you do NOT need paypal, then things get easier. Maybe sign up with a processor that accepts paypal and keeps a rolling reserve? Or if you can be without paypal completely and just use hi-risk processors for cards? Or can you use BTC

Will you be using subscriptions? If so, then it gets a bit harder as you need to keeo with a processor and not get kicked off and asking all subscribers to sign up again. Not a problem for one off purchases as you can just move processors.

 

[user9823671]

Ineo said:
I get it that you're trying to suck ppl into the mentor section, which is something I would definitely consider once I'm sure if and which setup works for me
Click to expand...

That's the thing, there are no definites. There are risks unknowns to all structures (unfortunately).

A fraudulent setup may work if it can keep under the radar, but if you a expecting attention, it might only be a short term structure, something you keep needing to setup again and again as it gets discovered (depending on location it is setup in). Again there is a risk analysis required, which only you can make. Risk of being identified as UBO or risk of business / banking being closed if discovered / more verification required.

 

[Ineo]

user9823671 said:
I have read on the forums a seychelles setup allows you to get a transferwise account. A forum member @happyjohn stated he got a paypal account recently with a seychelles mobile number. However not sure what setup that was exactly as didn't come back with further details.

Fact is, there are no definites. Read the forum and you will see one user post "I got bank account XYZ for my ABC corp" but another comes along and said "that doesn't work for me".
Seychelles is comparable to Belize (no public register, 0%tax, low reputation. You can use nominees for an extra level of protection, then and or trusts for another layer of protection. But how well this protects you against law suites, I honestly have no idea. For that you may want to speak to a local lawyer (and pay for their time any free advice should be assumed that they are planning on selling you something and you are the product).


IF you do NOT need paypal, then things get easier. Maybe sign up with a processor that accepts paypal and keeps a rolling reserve? Or if you can be without paypal completely and just use hi-risk processors for cards? Or can you use BTC

Will you be using subscriptions? If so, then it gets a bit harder as you need to keeo with a processor and not get kicked off and asking all subscribers to sign up again. Not a problem for one off purchases as you can just move processors.
Click to expand...

Yea I can see from what I've been reading that it's not easy to get a paypal setup offshore in company name, maybe only for a few more expensive locations . That''s why I'm considering running a stealth paypal but only if the documentation is legit , which is probably impossible and unreal to expect when buying an account from someone else ... I wonder if there are any services providing paypal comissioned payments, that would fix everything!

And yea paypal really important for my business model, although it's not subscription based per se users have the option to auto replenish their credits once the balance reaches a certain threshold . I also expect most of the payments to come from paypal , followed by credit card and lastly cryptos .

So just this last bit left to solve ... offshore working with paypal or paypal middleman / stealth that won't get me in a shitload of trouble if I'm declaring taxes !

 

[user9823671]

Ineo said:
Yea I can see from what I've been reading that it's not easy to get a paypal setup offshore in company name, maybe only for a few more expensive locations . That''s why I'm considering running a stealth paypal but only if the documentation is legit , which is probably impossible and unreal to expect when buying an account from someone else ...
Click to expand...

a stealth paypal account is still not legit 🙂

Also, if you use a personal paypal account, I did read that by mixing personal and business accounts, you can lose the liability protection a company gives you as it can be argued you and the company are indistinguishable. Not sure how true this is, just something I read so take with a grain of salt and something perhaps to get legal advice on.

I wonder if there are any services providing paypal comissioned payments, that would fix everything!
Click to expand...

There are, but again are not going to want to touch small volume, tax haven, unknown UBOs of privacy centric setups. They have the same issue as paypal does. Wanting to avoid fraud / laundering / tax evasions. Although may be slightly less strict than paypal itself.

And yea paypal really important for my business model, although it's not subscription based per se users have the option to auto replenish their credits once the balance reaches a certain threshold . I also expect most of the payments to come from paypal , followed by credit card and lastly cryptos .

So just this last bit left to solve ... offshore working with paypal or paypal middleman / stealth that won't get me in a shitload of trouble if I'm declaring taxes !
Click to expand...

There is always going to be a trail to you somewhere. Either via taxes, or the money trail to bank / processes. So maybe you just have to accept some risk of law suites and not try and be 100% safe (as only a dark setup would give that). Depending how determined the company is, court orders will order the payment processor to give your details as would the bank. But these places do have laws protected you so those have to be followed.

 

[Ineo]

user9823671 said:
a stealth paypal account is still not legit 🙂

Also, if you use a personal paypal account, I did read that by mixing personal and business accounts, you can lose the liability protection a company gives you as it can be argued you and the company are indistinguishable. Not sure how true this is, just something I read so take with a grain of salt and something perhaps to get legal advice on.


There are, but again are not going to want to touch small volume, tax haven, unknown UBOs of privacy centric setups. They have the same issue as paypal does. Wanting to avoid fraud / laundering / tax evasions. Although may be slightly less strict than paypal itself.


There is always going to be a trail to you somewhere. Either via taxes, or the money trail to bank / processes. So maybe you just have to accept some risk of law suites and not try and be 100% safe (as only a dark setup would give that). Depending how determined the company is, court orders will order the payment processor to give your details as would the bank. But these places do have laws protected you so those have to be followed.
Click to expand...

What about a trust in UK or somewhere else linked to the offshore in Belize ? I just found some services selling Trusts in UK / NL etc with paypal and bank included !

 

[user9823671]

Ineo said:
What about a trust in UK or somewhere else linked to the offshore in Belize ? I just found some services selling Trusts in UK / NL etc with paypal and bank included !
Click to expand...

So a UK trust is the owner of a belize company. What do you hope to achieve with that? The UK being a country of laws, a trust will not protect you from lawsuits. But probably you want to speak to the experts if thinking of a more complex structure. Jamesturner replied above, they are a respected firm. Why not give them a call and get some actual advice (note I have no idea if they offer just advice or what they actually provide, but does sound like you need actual expert advice as once you get into trusts from what I am aware things are more complicated, more costly and things move slower because if you need to do anything it has to go through layers which takes time and cost at each and every layer)

Regarding bank account / paypal do you due diligence, no one can guarantee you a bank account and certainly not a paypal account in 2020. They can charge you "for trying".

 

[Ineo]

user9823671 said:
So a UK trust is the owner of a belize company. What do you hope to achieve with that? The UK being a country of laws, a trust will not protect you from lawsuits. But probably you want to speak to the experts if thinking of a more complex structure. Jamesturner replied above, they are a respected firm. Why not give them a call and get some actual advice (note I have no idea if they offer just advice or what they actually provide, but does sound like you need actual expert advice as once you get into trusts from what I am aware things are more complicated, more costly and things move slower because if you need to do anything it has to go through layers which takes time and cost at each and every layer)

Regarding bank account / paypal do you due diligence, no one can guarantee you a bank account and certainly not a paypal account in 2020. They can charge you "for trying".
Click to expand...

No, it's not like that I think ... The Belize company creates the trust on its behalf, the trust is only responsible for managing the assets of the offshore company !

What I expect to achieve with this is that the front company will be the trust and the paypal will also be UK based, as there it would be easy to make one providing all the company documentation .

I've talked to a lawyer today and he told me it's feasible to setup things like this (Trust Frontend --> Sends money back to Offshore--> Tax declaration --> Fill in tax forms at my country) so I'm gonna contact some providers (Found about csformations and they seem legit and cheaper than many with plenty of good reviews as well) to check whether they can open the trust in the offshore name and if that's the case think I'll be going with that setup ! 🙂

About the PP's I found a few companies which have merchant accounts specifically for this purpose, they create a company in UK and setup everything for you, including bank account and paypal. Not sure if they're credible or not yet, but if the Trust + Offshore setup works than I'll be good to go I think .

Thanks for all the feedback and will update once I know if this works or not .

Last edited: Apr 10, 2020

 

[here2learn]

James Turner said:
Hi,

It is definitely possible to create a Belize Company and create anonymity by using Nominee Directors and Shareholders or Trust or Foundation Shareholders if more complexity is needed.
...
Click to expand...

Interesting... Is it possible to do this with Darks, too? So like, use a Dark to give to the Nominee Directors/Shareholders? - Feel free to PM me or happy to move this chat to the Mentor group (and really, really appreciate your advice!).