Talking about Poland and Going to Jail for 50 Dollar Printer at Home...

[friedrich5000]

Poland has a reduced CIT of 9% for companies with revenue below 2m eur annually.‌ Guess you can open two companies if your revenue is like 3m 😉 9% is low‍ for a EU country
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/poland/corporate/taxes-on-corporate-income

 

[CharlieHarper]

friedrich5000 said:
Poland has a reduced CIT of 9% for companies with revenue below 2m eur annually. Guess you can open two companies if your revenue is like 3m 😉 9% is low for a EU country
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/poland/corporate/taxes-on-corporate-income
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Yes, that was one of the things which got me looking into Poland in the first place. But then my trading setup is already in place so that is not much of an advantage.

However as a place for staffing and to keep a car (which I can use across Europe) it is a very good place.

In any case I have decided to proceed further with Poland. This is just one piece of the overall puzzle.

 

[lagloriacubana]

Yes, that was one of‍ the things which got me looking into Poland in the first place. But then my⁠ trading setup is already in place so that is not much of an advantage.

However as a place for staffing and to keep a car (which I can use across⁤ Europe) it is a very good place.

In any case I have decided to proceed⁣ further with Poland. This is just one piece of the overall puzzle.

 

[EliasIT]

May I ask, how do you plan to do this in practical terms? You don't‌ want to live in Poland, but you want to hire people there through a Polish‍ company you set up, and then drive around in a car with Polish license plates?⁠ Or are you planning to live in Poland for a short period?

 

[CharlieHarper]

EliasIT said:
May I ask, how do you plan to do this in practical terms? You don't want to live in Poland, but you want to hire people there through a Polish company you set up, and then drive around in a car with Polish license plates? Or are you planning to live in Poland for a short period?
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Yes. By living I mean my full residency/tax residency. I already spend time in Poland. I am a national of a neighboring country and it is my transit route. I usually take extra 3-4 days in Warsaw for rest and catching up with friends - at least 4 times per year. Other than that it is often trips for weddings/birthdays etc. So it usually ends up being few weeks every year.

I have had staff in Poland in past as contractors and experience was very good - and on my trips I see how many students are there who are good support candidates. I will have to spend more time, but not to have a house or to live live there.

 

[lagloriacubana]

Yes. By living I mean my full residency/tax residency. I already spend time⁤ in Poland. I am a national of a neighboring country and it is my transit⁣ route. I usually take extra 3-4 days in Warsaw for rest and catching up with⁢ friends - at least 4 times per year. Other than that it is often trips︀ for weddings/birthdays etc. So it usually ends up being few weeks every year.

I have︁ had staff in Poland in past as contractors and experience was very good - and︂ on my trips I see how many students are there who are good support candidates.︃ I will have to spend more time, but not to have a house or to︄ live live there.

 

[dziter]

I am in a similar situation. I already︀ lived in Poland few years in the past. Except the cold winters, I loved it.︁ I never see anything better matching my lifestyle in EU for now. Much better than︂ 'western EU'. Cheaper, nice people, lots of services and amenities and english is widely spoken︃ (better than in the west). Poland the last few years is not the Poland of︄ the past anymore. Many people start to notice it.
Strong economy, will be the 1st︅ army of EU soon, great infrastructure etc.
I do not spend more than few weeks︆ on the ground there but recently secured a 10 years residency there.

Most of my︇ activities are related to IT/SaaS/freelancing etc. I was considering the IP box regime (cheaper and︈ faster to get in Poland than in let's say Cyprus for example).
I am just︉ worried in the future, they might somehow change their mind retrospectively ...

I find the︊ accounting + ZUS expensive though.
But I do like the juridiction reputation, banking sector etc︋ compared to Cyprus & Malta for example.

I also have an existing setup (we can︌ take Cyprus or Malta as example). I am now wondering if it makes sense to:︍
- spend few months per year as lifestyle and the rest in my tax residency︎ juridiction.
pros: no change of the setup
cons: personal stability: 1 more base

- make️ the existing company dormant or closing it, opening a company in Poland with IP Box‌ regime. Or should I just keep the existing EU company and operates from there? I‍ guess it will be more headaches to try that ...
pros: not scared about not⁠ paying taxes there if I spend more time on ground
cons: I think I might⁤ pay more taxes than what I pay now and might regret this choice in the⁣ future and it will be harder to change the tax residency again.

@lagloriacubana : I⁢ will be happy to get more info about what you are doing or if you︀ recommend any accountant/professional or mind to share some quotes (DM is fine).
Thanks.

I have completely opposite experience. But I do like if most of︃ people believe that

 

[Forester]

Just my 2 cents...

You mean probably Lithuania, not Latvia, don't you?

Yes, a few years ago. Nowadays, at⁠ least fintech in LT is a bad option.

I think︋ both of you are right, in the specific way. From my personal perspective, Poland is︌ definitely not uniform, on the contrary. E.g. for rural regions, @manukahoney is right almost perfectly;︍ in bigger cities, @dziter 's experience is well valid.
(BTW, this is not exceptional in︎ the world at all.)

Generally, as far the business environment is concerned, I would say️ that if you remain to be just a small fish (it seems to me that‌ it can be the case of your setup, @lagloriacubana), you can be fine. If‍ you enter a big business and start to make a remarkable money, you can be⁠ endangered, unfortunately...
At least I think so.

Not to forget: I share the opinion that⁤ PL is a nice and quite safe country to visit or stay for a while.⁣ I cannot form a judgement to what extent it is important to be able at⁢ least understand local language; it seems to me that it is important (again, nothing exceptional︀ in the world) but it's just a speculation from me, I understand Polish well so︁ cannot try the opposite 🙂

 

[brianK]

What would‍ be the "other expenses" if you don't mind to elaborate?

I am considering moving to⁠ Bulgaria at some point because, for relatively little money, 1 million euros, you can live⁤ very well there and build an amazing house to live in.

And with an annual⁣ income of just 400,000 euros, you can live really well there, from what I’ve read.⁢

 

[CharlieHarper]

brianK said:
What would be the "other expenses" if you don't mind to elaborate?

I am considering moving to Bulgaria at some point because, for relatively little money, 1 million euros, you can live very well there and build an amazing house to live in.

And with an annual income of just 400,000 euros, you can live really well there, from what I've read.
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Other expenses in this situation are relevant to my personal situation - I doubt they will impact you.

I highly recommend that you actually visit Bulgaria a few times and try to socialise before you make the decision. I have a friend who moved here and didn't like the overall enviornment - but that's his experience, not anything I can personally comment on.

Furthermore, you have to take into account there is still an issue with organised crime in Bulgaria and overall corruption level is extremely high. Here was an interesting article not too long ago https://www.ft.com/content/58b59fde-0f4a-4da2-b68e-e824eee9380e

Also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Bulgaria

Have you lived in such countries like Bulgaria or Romania before? If not, highly recommend spend at least two 2-3 month trips - during winter and summer - before you make such a decision to put in a million there or move there.

I am not sure about Bulgaria but in Ukraine and another East European country I am familiar with businesses were bribing police to raid their competitors. So take that into account how flashy you want to live there. Once again, I have no such experience in Bulgaria but if you are familiar with post-soviet culture and how crime works in such places, best to spend some time in such places to see how comfortable you are actually living there.

 

[lagloriacubana]

Other expenses in this situation are relevant to⁤ my personal situation - I doubt they will impact you.

I highly recommend that you⁣ actually visit Bulgaria a few times and try to socialise before you make the decision.⁢ I have a friend who moved here and didn't like the overall enviornment - but︀ that's his experience, not anything I can personally comment on.

Furthermore, you have to take︁ into account there is still an issue with organised crime in Bulgaria and overall corruption︂ level is extremely high. Here was an interesting article not too long ago https://www.ft.com/content/58b59fde-0f4a-4da2-b68e-e824eee9380e

Also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Bulgaria

Have you lived in such countries like Bulgaria or Romania before? If not,︃ highly recommend spend at least two 2-3 month trips - during winter and summer -︄ before you make such a decision to put in a million there or move there.︅

I am not sure about Bulgaria but in Ukraine and another East European country I︆ am familiar with businesses were bribing police to raid their competitors. So take that into︇ account how flashy you want to live there. Once again, I have no such experience︈ in Bulgaria but if you are familiar with post-soviet culture and how crime works in︉ such places, best to spend some time in such places to see how comfortable you︊ are actually living there.

 

[CharlieHarper]

Forester said:
It seems to me that it is important (again, nothing exceptional in the world) but it's just a speculation from me, I understand Polish well so cannot try the opposite 🙂
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Until now I have had no problems with language issues - but then I have not dealt with government officials, in which case I would take a lawyer or interpreter with me anyway.

About 15 years ago, I found myself sitting next to a C-level executive from Mercury Bank on a train from Berlin to Warsaw. We ended up chatting for most of the trip, and I was very impressed with how ambitious Polish businesspeople were. Fast forward to now, and seeing the success of so many Polish companies in the IT space (which I know a bit about, since it's my industry), I really can't agree with the idea that they're closed off to the outside world. Just look at how much progress has been made economically. That kind of growth doesn't happen by staying inward-focused nut rather by looking ahead and reaching out.

 

[lagloriacubana]

Until now I have had no problems with language issues⁠ - but then I have not dealt with government officials, in which case I would⁤ take a lawyer or interpreter with me anyway.

About 15 years ago, I found myself⁣ sitting next to a C-level executive from Mercury Bank on a train from Berlin to⁢ Warsaw. We ended up chatting for most of the trip, and I was very impressed︀ with how ambitious Polish businesspeople were. Fast forward to now, and seeing the success of︁ so many Polish companies in the IT space (which I know a bit about, since︂ it's my industry), I really can't agree with the idea that they’re closed off to︃ the outside world. Just look at how much progress has been made economically. That kind︄ of growth doesn’t happen by staying inward-focused nut rather by looking ahead and reaching out.︅

 

[Forester]

🙂 This is really context-dependent, in my deep opinion. Try to take a passenger train (e.g.)︀ from Sandomierz or Bialystok to some place nearby and you will probably be surprised what︁ you will hear from the passengers next to you (hypothethically, as in many cases they︂ will not speak English). (To avoid misunderstanding – there is nothing wrong with these people.︃ They only perceive the world differently.)

The economic progress of PL is of︆ course indisputable. As for the background, I think that there are two factors:
1) The︇ traditional spirit of enterprise of Polish people. They were always really skilled as enterpreneurs.
2) Regardless of what political party was in power in the last decades, Poland was really︈ smart and competent in the exploitation of EU funds. Hats off. (FMPOV, e.g. remarkably better︉ than SK and much better than CZ.)

 

[brianK]

Impressive details you gave me there. Indeed good idea to stay there some︈ months or more to get a feeling of how things are there. I plan to︉ rent some AirBNB or something and take a few friend with me.

 

[Don]

"from 2020 onwards, mafia related incidents have risen back to power and contract killings have︁ been both successfully and unsuccessfully fulfilled. Racketeering amongst most bulgarian businesses has remained a problem︂ throughout the country."

I can relate from personal experience that the private sector of this︃ country gives off quite dark vibes. For example, companies like TIM - an organized crime︄ syndicate incorporated as a holding company based in Varna, Bulgaria.The company is controlled by three︅ veterans of an elite communist-era military unit: Tihomir Mitev, Ivo Kamenov, and Marin Mitev. The︆ abbreviation TIM stands for the first letters of each of the owners' first names.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIM_(Bulgaria)

2 years ago I was recruiting a director in Bulgaria and decided not to work︇ with one candidate, and he started threatening with violence, and break my skull.

Another story︈ that happened like 10 years ago in 2013, an acquaintance ordered a taxi, and the︉ taxi drove him to an deserted area, took out a knife and attempted to rob︊ him.

Lawyers told me that basically income above 1m starts attracting racketeers, below that you︋ can still remain under the radar.

Its a fun place for digital️ nomads to get a cheap apartment in a ski resort and do your freelancing with‌ relatively low tax.

I would recommend︀ to keep a rather low profile too, if you have significant wealth.






Around 10% of︁ Bulgarian population are gypsies - a rather interesting nation'





The country offers interesting tax incentives,︂ relatively cheap labour, and properties.

Crypto friendly too:





Cool political scene:
https://fintelegram.com/breaking-news-former-bulgarian-prime-minister-boyko-borissov-arrested/

https://www.politico.eu/article/the...bulgarias-mafia-state-reaches-breaking-point/

 

[JohnDebo]

Pros of Poland:
- Safe in general (no kidnappings etc.). Comparison with LATAM.
- Safe‌ to walk on the streets, even at night. Comparison with France / UK / Germany‍ / USA / LATAM.
- Not as woke as most of the Western countries.
- Quite beautiful women.
- Good infrastructure (roads, trains, bicycle paths, sidewalks). Comparison with LATAM /⁠ USA / SEA (omitting Singapore).
- Relatively good level of English among population. Comparison with⁤ LATAM.
- Having both Amazon and Allegro (and, IMO, Allegro is a better version of⁣ Amazon).
- Good selection of food products, high quality of food, safe food. Comparison with⁢ LATAM / USA.
- Inpost, convenient way of collecting parcels. No need to wait for︀ a delivery man if you live somewhere without reception.
- Relatively mild temperatures in summertime︁ (20-30 Celsius) and getting dark quite late (9/10 pm). Comparison with countries closer to equator.︂
- Quite modern cars on the streets. If you like walking it matters, as in︃ LATAM or most of SEA countries, when you get close to street, you can feel︄ how air stinks - probably because old cars are emitting a lot of s**t into︅ the air.
- A lot of good travelling spots around, close-by. You have direct flights︆ to most of EU countries + North Africa + Middle East + Caucasus. Most of︇ these flights are going to be 1-3 hours.
- Airbnb works in all major cities.︈ Comparison with Barcelona or New York, where it doesn't work. Or Rio, where you need︉ to be a brave person to use it.
- High quality of newly constructed apartments︊ and houses (in comparison with most of LATAM / Caucasus / Southern Europe).
- High︋ quality of medical care if you use private providers.

Cons:
- Winters: bad weather, short︌ days, bad air quality.
- There aren't many long distance flights options (it should change︍ in a few years with a construction of CPK).
- People tend to have less︎ positive vibes in interactions compared to those in LATAM or Southern Europe.
- Most shops️ closed on Sundays.

IMO good place to be in summertime, not so good place to‌ be in wintertime. But also depends on what you like.

These are my perspectives about‍ living / visiting Poland. Doing business is another thing, but it was already described in⁠ this thread.

 

[diro]

Did you go to jail⁤ already or avoided it thanks to our discussion here?

 

[daniels27]

He went to tax jail