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Russian President Putin announces military operation in Ukraine

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As well‌ as your one.
All your sencences was discussed in this thread and was debunked.
No sence do it again. Just even example with corruption level - Ukraine is literally in‍ the middle of the world rating and in *better* position compared to the russia. It⁠ is proofed by links couple of pages previously in this thread.
100% of your arguments⁤ are same. They are nothing but part of russian propaganda and puts a lot of⁣ lies.
 
What exactly is the⁠ Russian advantage of the European economy falling to bits? What's the point. I also think⁤ Germany was very short-sighted and am not a big fan in any way, especially not⁣ in the way they terrorized the ECB with their Bundesbank ideology. Their export economy was⁢ also boosted by an artificially low currency. They sticked to coal too long and I︀ think they trusted Russia too much because of WOII guilt (among other things). If they︁ had diversified their energy mix enough this would not have had too happen.

Not really, he is now stating the following himself: "They have one goal: to︆ disband the former Soviet Union and its fundamental part - the Russian Federation," Putin told︇ Rossiya 1 state television in an interview recorded on Wednesday but released on Sunday.

Putin said the West wanted to divide up Russia and then control the world's biggest producer︈ of raw materials, a step, he said, that could well lead to the destruction of︉ many of the peoples of Russia including the ethnic Russian majority.

This is just bulls**t,︊ the idea that "the West" would invade the largest country on earth is laughable. Not︋ ever would NATO invade Russia, no matter how many bases they have bordering Russia. And︌ the constant threatening with nukes is pure gangster behaviour.

That is a false comparison. If ICBM-ships move into the Baltic Sea they︎ can strike all major cities of Russia at will. Mutual destruction is mutual destruction, this️ talk about bases is all drivel. I bet you don't even think NATO would ever‌ invade Russia, the idea is bizarre, it would take years and years and years of‍ preparation. It is more likely China would invade Siberia than for the EU or NATO⁠ to invade Ukraine.

Anyway, I will read that last book you recommended, thanks for the⁤ recommendation, don't have more time to write right now.
 
Well, Putin is correct, the CFR wants regime︎ change and wants to destabilise Russia because they are not a client state.

This isn't️ achieved by invasion or full-scale war, Nato would not stand a chance. It's achieved by‌ nudge units and proxy wars, look how they deployed Navalny who is a CIA man.‍ And now, look at how they are using Ukraine "to the last Ukrainian" in a⁠ bid to turn public opinion against Putin, where hopefully they'd get another Yeltzin in and⁤ return to russia of the early 90s.

I don't know if you've been to Russia,⁣ but it's been improving year on year. I can't say that of the USA, their⁢ infrastructure is in tatters.

You can see how the US works below:
 
Oh you are 100% right. Who can know more about internals and progress‌ of russia that russians (even when they pretend to be Europeans like our 'friend')
 
I have zero ties to Russia, in fact I have no dog⁠ in this fight. So I can look at it objectively. Not many on this thread⁤ have so far managed that unfortunately.
 
I actually wanted to live in St. Petersburg for about a half-year, but‍ then the war started, which also made my other target, Georgia, less attractive.

When it⁠ comes to the USA itself, I have visited quite sometimes. The Americans I love to⁤ do business with, but I would never want to life there. The culture, the food,⁣ not much is to my liking apart from the nature and the Americans themselves who⁢ are incredibly friendly.

The USA has some really pressing problems, nevertheless, the Pax Americana has︀ made much of the world far richer and I guess this is one of my︁ points.

My question to you is, wouldn't you think a non-Putin Russia that played along︂ with the West or at least Europe would be far more powerful? Do you support︃ Putin and his policies? By my reasoning, Russia could be far richer if it did︄ not have Putin as president. What if a change of government was effected in Russia,︅ and it would be Westernized a bit more. How bad would this be? What is︆ this about, exactly? Is it Russia wanting to stay poor while jacking off to Stalin?︇ You might not like the US, but what if it lifted European GDP by 50/60%?︈

Take a look at Europe for example, lots of countries have arguably been influenced by︉ American culture the most, and it has creeped everywhere into the societies. However, there seems︊ to be a backstop in how far a country will adopt American culture. I would︋ bet most Italian teenagers now listen to American pop-music and watch Netflix, however, they are︌ still deeply Italian. Same goes for all other European nationalities I have encountered be it︍ Germany, Greece, Austria, France, Serbia etc.

If we take a look at countries in former︎ Yugoslavia, they seem to be doing pretty well these days. Same with Poland, Baltic countries️ etc. In my opinion, Putin is holding his people hostage for the sake of him‌ being the main actor in a grand story of him reclaiming the “glory” of the‍ USSR. What the USA hates is Putin, not Russia.

If you are objective and have⁠ no dogs in this fight, what is your reason for supporting Putin in all of⁤ this? You just really hate the US? You like business to be bad and high⁣ inflation?
 
Russia is becoming more powerful as we speak, so no. The idea that everyone is︃ on the side of Ukraine is nonsense, most of the world wants to work with︄ Russia and do business with them. They are building strategic partnerships daily.

Who would want︅ to work with Europe when Merkel and Hollande admitted they sign agreements (Minsk) that they︆ have no intention of keeping?

Who would trust the United States when they commit an︇ act of war against an ally by blowing up critical infrastructure?

I think a non︈ Putin Russia would be dangerous, because Putin is not some crazed dictator, he is balanced︉ and moderate. If you replaced him right now you may get some war hawk instead.︊ And then stuff does get interesting.

And Russia has worked perfectly fine with Europe up︋ until now. In fact, too well which is why the USA blew up Nordstream II.︌

The USA doesn't want to work with other countries, they want their hegemony and you're︍ either a client state or an enemy.

Look at them bussing in agitators into Hungary︎ to talk about 'democracy'

Yes, to a⁣ degree I support his policies because I like the multi polar world, with sovereign states⁢ and the idea of family unit.

Putin is the only statesman (and Lavrov) I can︀ think of. The west has no statesmen any more, they're all just politicians.

I don't︁ want a rules based order that only has decadence and stands behind nothing other than︂ some rainbow flag and various other nonsense.

The United States doesn't want to lift European︃ GDP. It's just destroyed Europe by blowing up their infrastructure and charging them over the︄ odds for natural gas. Europe is on its knees. Germany needs to grow some balls︅ and leave NATO.

And the idea of Russia becoming more like the west as a︆ pathway to success is ridiculous. It's a pathway to ruin.

Theres a difference between embracing American culture of fast︍ food, muscle cars and being a vassel state who is fully controlled by the US.︎

I like Americans and the people, I just hate their government and the CFR.
The Baltic's are non entities. Doing well in⁤ what sense?

How is Putin holding citizens hostage? You don't get thrown in the gulags⁣ there now, it's relatively free and open. How's Julian Assange getting on in the free⁢ and democratic west?

The United States hates Russia full stop. You have people high up︀ - Nuland, Kagan etc that absolutely depise Russia.
As above I like a multi polar world where sovereign︄ states work together and trade where it's mutually beneficial. Not where one country uses a︅ currency backed by guns to run it by their rules. Where they are their own︆ moral arbiters. The things the USA condemns (or bombs) others for, often do the exact︇ same thing themselves yet brand it as 'good' for the world. I mean look at︈ all the oil they steal from Syria.

I can't think of a single good thing︉ the USA has done for the world in the last 20/30 years. It's a reverse︊ midas touch, everything they touch gets destroyed. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, and now Ukraine.︋ All destroyed.

But despite all that I don't view Russia as some perfect example of︌ how everyone should be. They have flaws, their leaders have flaws like all countries, its︍ just in this case they're on the right side of history.
 
In response to your entire post, I disagree with almost everything. I find⁠ it interesting to read your detailed opinion, though, and will look back at it at⁤ times to see how it stood the test of time, so thanks for that. I⁣ think Putin will not win this war, and over time people who supported him now⁢ will shift their opinion of him. To call someone like Putin “the only statesman” reads︀ like fiction to me. This entire war green lit by a deranged old man surrounded︁ by sycophants who supplied him with bad intel will be studied for decades in how︂ to absolutely not wage war. It will be stamped as a hallmark of hubris, incompetence,︃ corruption, mismanagement, myopia, narcissism, tribalism, cognitive dissonance, brainwashing and cognitive decline.

You say you don't︄ want decadence, but support someone who is reportedly one of the richest people on the︅ planet through pillaging the state, flying a plane with a toilet made of gold, and︆ vacationing on a $100 million mega yacht, effecting power through literal oligarchs. Time will lay︇ all of it bare.
 
@John Spectre False allegations and personal attacks against support staff because your getting in your‌ feelings about this topic have got you yet again another warning. You have a track‍ record of leveling false allegations on here and received warnings in past.

P.S If you⁠ feel very emotional or feel psychologically affected or triggered by the posts here to the⁤ point you need to level fake claims yet again please take a break and recover⁣ your mental health. The next action will be a suspension. There is a life outside⁢ this thread so just chill out a little with personal attacks...lol thu&¤#.

*UPDATE* John Spectre︀ is now serving a 1 week ban. Hopefully he can take the time to chill︁ out a little, recover his mental health and come to his senses when he is︂ able to return next Monday and debate without personal attacks.
 
@GeneralGogol

I do. Athough‍ in the past, 1-2 years ago and futher back, I wouldn't have supported Putin.

As you can see, with Putin's Russia continues to a) exist b) become more powerful c)⁠ getting more allies internationally

despite 10k+ sanctions and EU/US/UK counter measueres and proxy-war.

Do you⁤ need any other proof then?

---

And recall the weak Russia -- the one that⁣ existed with president Eltzin in 1990....2000? US and West, and maybe you too, would more⁢ rather want to deal with that Russia. Huh?

And by the way, Eltzin became president︀ precisely because of the interventation of the US in the those Russian elections, and there's︁ plenty of evidence. That's how much of a friend US to Russia is.
 
This is just⁤ rhetoric and buzz words. It reads like someone with a PhD in Putin studies from⁣ a UK university.

Putin is not really waging a war. Hence why Ukraine still has⁢ power, internet, public transport, water etc.

If he was truly deranged and waging war as︀ you claim, Ukraine could be destroyed in a matter of days. Strategic air campaign a︁ la Baghdad, hypersonics galore. Over.

But that isn't happening. Civilian deaths are low. The only︂ derangement I see is Ukrainian nationalist dropping grenades on civilians over Donbas. Footage is easy︃ to find of this. Show me Russia doing the same.

It's the most moderate war︄ you can imagine for most people. The only people it's gruesome for are those young︅ Ukrainians thrown into the meat grinder to die on behalf of Joe Biden.

The USA︆ will abandon Ukraine just like it abandoned Afghanistan. For Russia this is existential, they are︇ not willing to lose.

And do you have evidence for Putin gold toilet and wealth?︈ Is it like his palace that Navalny shared?

Check the Panama papers, the hero Zelensky,︉ president of free and democratic Ukraine is in there for some reason. A billionaire actor.︊
 
ROFL

who defended Lukashenko when the west tried to assicinate him or when the demonstration‌ accured like in ukraine ?
Who already planned to sell off the state owned property‍ of belarus ?
Yeah i guess the west only tried to bring democracy there.
No intention to weaken russia there and take away peoples owned wealth and transfer it to⁠ some oligarchs
 

Putin says Ukrainian group attacks border region​

President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday Russia had‌ been hit by a "terrorist attack" in the southern Bryansk region bordering Ukraine, and vowed‍ to crush what he said was a Ukrainian sabotage group

Amid reports of shelling and⁠ sporadic sabotage, Russia's border regions have become increasingly volatile since Moscow invaded Ukraine a year⁤ ago

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...-group-border-region-russian-news-2023-03-02/
 
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