Own Nothing, but Control Everything – A Concept That Can Change Your Life
- Thread starter JohnLocke
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You're absolutely right, one solution doesn’t fit everyone. For me, the main focus is on maximum anonymity, flexibility in finding EMIs and banks, and the highest level of asset protection possible.
When I say "maximum," I mean within the limits of what’s actually achievable. When it comes to asset protection, I’m talking about stacking wealth in a company where I’m not listed as the owner but still have full control. Ideally, authorities in EU country X would have a hard time figuring out what I control in non-EU country Y, while I’m living in country Z.
Not sure if that makes sense?
When I say "maximum," I mean within the limits of what’s actually achievable. When it comes to asset protection, I’m talking about stacking wealth in a company where I’m not listed as the owner but still have full control. Ideally, authorities in EU country X would have a hard time figuring out what I control in non-EU country Y, while I’m living in country Z.
Not sure if that makes sense?
That’s what a lot of people think, myself included. I’ve got around 500-600K euros in my account, plus some BTC and gold, and I want to protect it from authorities and creditors in case I ever do something that makes them come after my assets.
The problem is, I have no real idea how this all works. I’ve heard about trusts, foundations, asset protection, anonymous LLCs, and even cold wallets that are supposed to be secret, but not really.
The big question is, how do people like us actually set this up properly when we don’t have much knowledge about it?
The problem is, I have no real idea how this all works. I’ve heard about trusts, foundations, asset protection, anonymous LLCs, and even cold wallets that are supposed to be secret, but not really.
The big question is, how do people like us actually set this up properly when we don’t have much knowledge about it?
The basics are simple (and plenty of times addressed here on OCT as well) including by myself.
1. Source of wealth -> how did you acquire your wealth?
2. What risks (real, stay away from perceived. You are normally a lot less interesting than you think) are associated with the wealth in your opinion? If you move in wrong circles or if︀ the wealth was from shady business, they bring different challenges.
3. What are your 5︁ and 10 year plans? Do you need the wealth to accomplish those plans (building/buying a︂ house, starting a company etc)?
4. What do you personally think would be a good︃ solution for structuring (onshore, offshore etc)?
Answer all of the above truthfully and then go︄ and search for 3 parties that could in your opinion assist you with setting up︅ the structure you have in mind. Make sure you individually pay these people for their︆ advise as to avoid becoming the customer that gets sold generic solutions. 2 of the︇ 3 will more or less say the same. 1 of those is your specialist. You︈ get the point. And, reiterating; play full out. If you don't tell the full and︉ honest story, the solution will be a -garbage in garbage out- one.
Also, keep in︊ mind that you cannot always have exactly what you want. In Europe Monaco is really︋ interesting for true asset protection. However, do you qualify? With less than 1M (theoretical, practically︌ think more along the lines of 5-10M) you dont even have to think about Monaco.︍
If the above is -only- to dodge taxes, be prepared to look over your shoulder︎ for the rest of your life based on the current state of America, Europe, Australia.️
1. Source of wealth -> how did you acquire your wealth?
2. What risks (real, stay away from perceived. You are normally a lot less interesting than you think) are associated with the wealth in your opinion? If you move in wrong circles or if︀ the wealth was from shady business, they bring different challenges.
3. What are your 5︁ and 10 year plans? Do you need the wealth to accomplish those plans (building/buying a︂ house, starting a company etc)?
4. What do you personally think would be a good︃ solution for structuring (onshore, offshore etc)?
Answer all of the above truthfully and then go︄ and search for 3 parties that could in your opinion assist you with setting up︅ the structure you have in mind. Make sure you individually pay these people for their︆ advise as to avoid becoming the customer that gets sold generic solutions. 2 of the︇ 3 will more or less say the same. 1 of those is your specialist. You︈ get the point. And, reiterating; play full out. If you don't tell the full and︉ honest story, the solution will be a -garbage in garbage out- one.
Also, keep in︊ mind that you cannot always have exactly what you want. In Europe Monaco is really︋ interesting for true asset protection. However, do you qualify? With less than 1M (theoretical, practically︌ think more along the lines of 5-10M) you dont even have to think about Monaco.︍
If the above is -only- to dodge taxes, be prepared to look over your shoulder︎ for the rest of your life based on the current state of America, Europe, Australia.️
can answer like this:︀
1. from crypto like 90% others too, but I received it for a service
2. from tax man, like I read a few threads from @EliasIT and @benq and @JohnLocke
3. 5 years plan go for house at a silent place, living from my wealth︁ +3 million euro
4. Offshore, like the mention in above thread, company in one country,︂ living in another and on hobby plan receive payments from third country.
1. from crypto like 90% others too, but I received it for a service
2. from tax man, like I read a few threads from @EliasIT and @benq and @JohnLocke
3. 5 years plan go for house at a silent place, living from my wealth︁ +3 million euro
4. Offshore, like the mention in above thread, company in one country,︂ living in another and on hobby plan receive payments from third country.
1. Do you have accounts for the services provided?
2. Brace yourself. Good luck in finding a solution which works and is affordable.
3. Risky to buy a house when the tax man is breathing down your neck.
4. Theoretically that works. Practically, good luck in finding functional banks for a reasonable price. You︀ have literally three issues; a. Taxman. It means that banks have issues working with you.︁ b. Roaming lifestyle which creates reporting issues for banks. c. Offshore, least of your worries︂ but in combination with an and b, c will be an issue.
It will boil︃ down to that you cannot really chose a bank. You depend on which banks is︄ willing to work with you. And that means it will be expensive af.
2. Brace yourself. Good luck in finding a solution which works and is affordable.
3. Risky to buy a house when the tax man is breathing down your neck.
4. Theoretically that works. Practically, good luck in finding functional banks for a reasonable price. You︀ have literally three issues; a. Taxman. It means that banks have issues working with you.︁ b. Roaming lifestyle which creates reporting issues for banks. c. Offshore, least of your worries︂ but in combination with an and b, c will be an issue.
It will boil︃ down to that you cannot really chose a bank. You depend on which banks is︄ willing to work with you. And that means it will be expensive af.
Good, secure it. And make it readable. And secure it. Redundancy.
Nothing is impossible. For as long as you are willing to pay. Came across multiple people that have opted to pay the tax man. Running is mentally exhausting and then we havent even started to talk about how expensive running becomes.
Who owns the entity? Plus RE is tied to a jurisdiction. Its the easiest asset to claim. Based on your wealth (assuming you told the trust) you dont have enough︀ to keep the tax man away. They have got unlimited time, money and resources to︁ prosecute you. Nowaydays the level at which they open a case is somewhere in the︂ range from 75-100K and upwards of undeclared income.
For your level of wealth, it will︄ be expensive 🙂
Reading in between the lines I get the idea that your mind is︅ stuck in the pre 2010 era. Those days are long long gone. There is absolutely︆ nothing "romantic" or "exciting" (for a lack of better words - or my limited knowledge︇ of the English language) about the current offshore industry. If you have UHNWI level of︈ wealth then there are options and still, lots of people let their lawyers negotiate with︉ the tax man as to avoid being prosecuted.
It is really no fun to always︊ have to look over your shoulder. Especially not when you want to settle down a︋ bit. Buying a house is settling down.
Nothing is impossible. For as long as you are willing to pay. Came across multiple people that have opted to pay the tax man. Running is mentally exhausting and then we havent even started to talk about how expensive running becomes.
Who owns the entity? Plus RE is tied to a jurisdiction. Its the easiest asset to claim. Based on your wealth (assuming you told the trust) you dont have enough︀ to keep the tax man away. They have got unlimited time, money and resources to︁ prosecute you. Nowaydays the level at which they open a case is somewhere in the︂ range from 75-100K and upwards of undeclared income.
For your level of wealth, it will︄ be expensive 🙂
Reading in between the lines I get the idea that your mind is︅ stuck in the pre 2010 era. Those days are long long gone. There is absolutely︆ nothing "romantic" or "exciting" (for a lack of better words - or my limited knowledge︇ of the English language) about the current offshore industry. If you have UHNWI level of︈ wealth then there are options and still, lots of people let their lawyers negotiate with︉ the tax man as to avoid being prosecuted.
It is really no fun to always︊ have to look over your shoulder. Especially not when you want to settle down a︋ bit. Buying a house is settling down.
So in other words, what you're saying is that unless you︊ have a double digit million amount in either euros or USD, you can forget about︋ escaping the clutches of the dirty tax office?
Impossible to give a clear yes/no answer as I need to know a lot more information than what has been given. The question set is merely a start.
My direct answer to your question would be; " it depends" (leaning towards a yes when you live in a western country).
My direct answer to your question would be; " it depends" (leaning towards a yes when you live in a western country).
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