Citizenship by investment for people with no first passport

[patrick12]

Hi everyone,

I have a good friend who is part of an oppressed minority in their country and their government denies any passport request from their ethnic group, so they are basically stuck in that country, at the mercy of the bullying from the police.

They were looking at CIP but quickly realized that most countries offering that kind of service require you to already have a first passport. I was told that the 2 following countries do accept stateless people applications:

• Vanuatu, but I find no mention of that on their official site and they seem to be asking for a passport number
• Antigua, they seem to not be asking for passport number indeed

I was wondering if anyone had more information on the matter, or even experience with these? Or if you know about any other country accepting stateless people application for CIP.

thank you!

 

[Martin Everson]

They just need to apply for a Convention Travel Document in another country and‌ then use that document for whatever program they are looking to apply for.

 

[Mr Eros]

Not all stateless people are treated the same way. Please shed more light on that.‌ What's his nationality or ethnicity and where does he reside?

 

[patrick12]

He is Uyghur living in China.

We tried contacting embassies⁣ regarding that one and it is actually a bit difficult to get as you need⁢ to first get the refugee status which could take years according to my embassy, especially︀ with Ukrainians and Iranians getting the priority these days (I am not saying that they︁ do not deserve asylum as well).
Another issue is that Chinese customs officers are well︂ known to just take away that kind of documents -- or even destroy chinese passports︃ once at the airport.

 

[Martin Everson]

Which embassy you contacted and who told you it would take years?

 

[patrick12]

I contacted the French embassy (my embassy) and an employee there told‍ me that. I had a similar response from an immigration lawyer that I got in⁠ touch with. If the person is already in the country it takes less time according⁤ to them.

 

[darkmage12]

Without documentation how does your friend travel out then? I may have a few options‌ but then without a passport or travelling documents I don't see a way for your‍ friend to get out of China. Furthermore China is on lockdown now. Applying to come⁠ out is a pain in the a*s even with documentations. Any China ID or proof⁤ of identity?

 

[patrick12]

Well he has never been able to go⁣ outside of the country!
Yes true, even with a passport right now it is hard⁢ to get out, not only because of the lockdown, but because the government is trying︀ to prevent people from leaving. Lots of folks from middle/upper class have started to get︁ out and now unless you have proof that you found a job or a university︂ abroad you cannot leave the country.
He has a China ID and birth certificate.

 

[darkmage12]

Even with proof⁣ of job or university abroad you still need to show that you have money to⁢ live abroad. I have done quite a few ones for a number of friends from︀ China now. Let me check if ID and birth certificate will work. It's getting tougher︁ for them with the zero covid policy.

 

[patrick12]

Yes he's also working on getting his money outta there, which is another headache @_@⁣

thank you for checking!

 

[void]

guys, the fact that you're serious in this thread makes me feel physically sick, what‌ a fucked up world

 

[darkmage12]

Well there was a fire in‍ his region like yesterday and there was a protest to lift the lockdown restrictions. People⁠ died from the fire. I guess the zero covid policy is getting out of hand⁤ with cases soaring to 30k.

 

[Mike Forman]

Nowadays Chinese travel becomes hard as‍ the Chinese government refuses even to its native Han mainland Chinese, to renew or give⁠ a passport. To get a visa and be able to go abroad same thing if⁤ you don't have a valid business reason, this on top of the covid measures in⁣ certain cities.

Getting capital out of China is another headache and the best way is⁢ still using Hong Kong connections or agents...
Being on top an Uigur makes it more︀ complicated. That's unfortunately the situation in China.

Perhaps he can cross the borders out of︁ China, although I dont believe any neighbouring countries will entertain refugees/illegal Chinese immigrants, and being︂ sent back to China would result being taken into detention

Would be interesting to hear︃ what the solutions are for people that cant obtain a passport in China.

 

[patrick12]

Yes that's exactly our thought! I⁠ got the example of an Uyghur refugee camp in Thailand, people have been kept there⁤ for years and are just being sent back to China little by little when Thailand⁣ needs a favor from China.

There are actually entire companies which business model is to sell that kind of stuff to︀ people. They usually have a lot of contacts in the government and can make many︁ things happen, like getting a passport, getting your kids in a particular school...
My friend︂ is in contact with one of these companies, and has paid a lot of money.︃ The issue is that because of covid a lot of things have slowed down and︄ the officials getting the bribes prefer to focus on families rather than individuals because it︅ makes more money. My friend has been waiting for more than a year and his︆ account manager in the company understands very well his situation but cannot do anything since︇ her manager won't put my friend on the priority list...

 

[darkmage12]

Well if your︅ friend is of Muslim religion it seems that it would be virtually impossible to get︆ a passport now. I'm checking with some SOE which have projects abroad to see if︇ they can issue working order to him. Then use that country to issue Visa for︈ him to come out.

 

[patrick12]

thanks so much!⁤

 

[Marc Rich]

I have seen similar cases with stateless Syrians. The only option is to do an‌ African passport first, that your friend has ID and birth certificate is good start.

You can definitely forget about Antigua or Vanuatu with no first passport.

 

[darkmage12]

I actually found a solution but the‌ only issue is the China person have to cross border themselves. Most of them will‍ go through land border crossing into Hanoi without the use of a passport.

 

[MiddleEuroAsia]

While it's true that some stateless Syrians have had success with African passports⁠ and sometimes, Turkish passports, we've actually had clients who were able to obtain a Vanuatu⁤ passport with just their ID.

It's definitely a more difficult and expensive process, and we⁣ do recommend having the right connections in Vanuatu to help with the application. However, it's⁢ not impossible and we've seen it work for other clients in the past.

You're banned︀ for whatever reason, but I Just wanted to clarify that for others who may be︁ following this thread.